Edgar, 'Suchness' needs no explanation or knowledge. It just is as it is. When body-mind is dropped (usually by 'grace' - not by thinking about it) there is a 'crack where the Light comes in'. In other words, when we're "cracked open" all that remains is Suchness. No eyes, no nose, no path, no suffering, no end of suffering, no models, no science, no diligence, no Edgar, no ontological energy, ... to paraphrase the Sutra.
Mike --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Mike, > > He could reach the usual Zen state of mindlessness that Bill e.g. describes, > but he could not really understand completely the 'true nature of things', > nor I'm sure can anyone living today as the science is not complete though > I'm working diligently on it. > > However it was common knowledge even to ancient Indian sages that 'all forms > are empty' which is the key insight. However to completely understand how all > that works and exactly how forms reveal reality one must solve what I call > the 'quantum koan' and all the other related koans via diligent study. > > Edgar > > > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 8:27 PM, mike wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > What about the satori of an illiterate peasant a thousand years ago; are > > you saying he couldn't have been awakened unless he first understood > > "ontological energy" and the science of the brain? If you're not, then your > > 'models' are just more noise for the mind. > > > > Mike > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
