I won't give up until Joe cries Uncle. What a weird phrase that is. 

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On May 1, 2013, at 9:44 PM, "bobthomas564" <[email protected]> wrote:

> AGREE can we end this NOW?
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
> >
> > William,
> > 
> > The only certainty is through effective practice, learned properly from a 
> > good teacher and practiced face to face with said teacher, and with a group.
> > 
> > I started the conversation, yes, in praise of practice and recovering our 
> > full human inheritance. Not as a long backward look at Human evolution. 
> > Practice is in the present, and there's no time like it. If the moment is 
> > not ripe now, then when?
> > 
> > The discussion of the use of reason and figuring-out as far as awakening is 
> > concerned is already long since settled: it does not enter, and hinders. 
> > After awakening, one uses everything freely, provided one continues to 
> > practice. But for awakening, reason is moot, and instead creates a blockage 
> > when invoked. One must drop it, and one easily does, if one keeps to one's 
> > method of practice and allows the body to save its life. Methods are 
> > compassionately passed from teacher to student: that is the only way to 
> > learn.
> > 
> > To borrow a figure from Edgar, our practice is "99 percent" physical. 
> > 
> > There is no mind.
> > 
> > The feeling that one is "reasoning", and "figuring-out" in Zen, is engaging 
> > in illusion. One has to drop all such by keeping to one's method of 
> > practice. That method of practice is not "thinking".
> > 
> > But, neither books nor internet Fora, however kindly and caring, can teach 
> > how to practice. Fortunately, there are teachers. They have the bottom line 
> > on the subject, because they embody it, which is what we should do, and can 
> > do.
> > 
> > --Joe
> > 
> > > William Rintala <brintala@> wrote:
> > >
> > > And yet you are the one who started this conversation.  It has been my 
> > > understanding that the primary message of Buddhism was addressing 
> > > suffering. What it is and how to stop it. The Buddha was not searching or 
> > > teaching ways to survive crises but to end suffering.  I can agree that 
> > > survivability might be enhanced by being fully in the moment but I see no 
> > > certainty of it. In my readings of Zen the moment of Death is often 
> > > addressed with an awareness and 
> > often a smile. The strawberry is so sweet.
> >
> 
> 

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