there you go i told you so it's a myth...merle
Mike, The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here at the moment. Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. Edgar On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, [email protected] wrote: >Chris, > >Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he >wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how this >koan could be irrelevant. > >Mike > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > >________________________________ > From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]>; >To: <[email protected]>; >Cc: <[email protected]>; >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM > > > > > >The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and >wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so >open to what is. >Thanks, >--Chris >301-270-6524 > >On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >>Edgar, >> >>Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the >>perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the cliff? >>He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? Irrelevant? I don't >>think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding paintings - looks like a >>happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you're taking this >>perspective because you always argue that when illusions are seen as >>illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never enjoy anything? >> >>Mike >> >> >> >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>To: <[email protected]>; >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM >> >> >> >>Mike, >> >> >>Again you fail to understand the meaning... >> >> >>Edgar >> >> >> >> >>On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>>Merle, >>> >>>Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries >>>you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; >>>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in >>>helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle >>> >>> >>> >>>Edgar, >>> >>>Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>>To: <[email protected]>; >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>>Mike, >>> >>> >>>All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes >>>strawberries... >>> >>> >>>However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying >>>information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the >>>strawberry... >>> >>> >>>Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Bill! >>>> >>>>Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of >>>>Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that as >>>>'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what you >>>>say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the Absolute. >>>>Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who wouldn't >>>>want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>> >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>________________________________ >>>> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >>>>To: <[email protected]>; >>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>>Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>>What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. >>>> >>>> >>>>Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and >>>>Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques >>>>(counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are >>>>employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion >>>>of duality. >>>> >>>> >>>>When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is >>>>Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no >>>>subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, no >>>>experience/experience. There is Just THIS! >>>> >>>> >>>>For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no >>>>taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There >>>>is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start >>>>perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning >>>>categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... >>>> >>>> >>>>That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by >>>>'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. >>>> >>>> >>>>If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go to: >>>> The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic illusion >>>>of self/other. >>>> >>>> >>>>...Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Bill!, >>>> >>>>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? >>>> >>>>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get >>>>passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >
