Mike, The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here at the moment.
Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. Edgar On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Chris, > > Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he > wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how > this koan could be irrelevant. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Cc: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM > > > > The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and > wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so > open to what is. > > Thanks, > --Chris > 301-270-6524 > On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Edgar, > > Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the > perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the cliff? > He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? Irrelevant? I don't > think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding paintings - looks like a > happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you're taking this > perspective because you always argue that when illusions are seen as > illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never enjoy anything? > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM > > > Mike, > > > Again you fail to understand the meaning... > > Edgar > > > On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Merle, >> >> Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries >> you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; >> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >> Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM >> >> >> >> lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in >> helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle >> >> >> Edgar, >> >> Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >> To: <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >> Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM >> >> >> Mike, >> >> All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes >> strawberries... >> >> However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying >> information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the >> strawberry... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> >>> Bill! >>> >>> Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of >>> Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that as >>> 'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what you >>> say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the Absolute. >>> Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who wouldn't >>> want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >>> To: <[email protected]>; >>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike, >>> >>> What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. >>> >>> Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and >>> Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques >>> (counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are >>> employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion >>> of duality. >>> >>> When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is >>> Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no >>> subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, no >>> experience/experience. There is Just THIS! >>> >>> For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no >>> taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There >>> is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start >>> perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning >>> categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... >>> >>> That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by >>> 'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. >>> >>> If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go to: >>> The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic illusion >>> of self/other. >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> >>> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> Bill!, >>> >>> I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting >>> shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If >>> they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? >>> >>> I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get >>> passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
