The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so open to what is.
Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Edgar, > > Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the > perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the > cliff? He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? > Irrelevant? I don't think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding > paintings - looks like a happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) > that you're taking this perspective because you always argue that when > illusions are seen as illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never > enjoy anything? > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > * Sent: * Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM > > > > Mike, > > Again you fail to understand the meaning... > > Edgar > > > On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > > > Merle, > > Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries > you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Merle Lester <[email protected]>; > * To: * [email protected] <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > * Sent: * Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM > > > > lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in > helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle > > > Edgar, > > Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > * Sent: * Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM > > > Mike, > > All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes > strawberries... > > However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying > information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the > strawberry... > > Edgar > > > > On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: > > > Bill! > > Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of > Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that as > 'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what you > say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the Absolute. > Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who wouldn't > want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > ------------------------------ > * From: * Bill! <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * [Zen] Re: Advaita > * Sent: * Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM > > > > Mike, > > What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. > > Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and > Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques > (counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are > employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion > of duality. > > When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is > Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no > subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, > no experience/experience. There is Just THIS! > > For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no > taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There > is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start > perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning > categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... > > That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by > 'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. > > If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go > to: The Origin of the Illusion of > Self<http://www.billsmart.com/writing/zen/self/self.htm> which > is about the dualistic illusion of self/other. > > ...Bill! > > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > > > Bill!, > > I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting > shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If > they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? > > I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get > passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. > > Mike > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > >
