for christ sake group..not all strawberries are sweet..depends on the conditions under which they are grown..sweet, sour bitter salty all psrt and parcel of life...merle
Chris, Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how this koan could be irrelevant. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]>; To: <[email protected]>; Cc: <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so open to what is. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >Edgar, > >Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the >perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the cliff? >He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? Irrelevant? I don't >think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding paintings - looks like a >happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you're taking this >perspective because you always argue that when illusions are seen as illusions >that is enlightenment. Or do you never enjoy anything? > >Mike > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > >________________________________ > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >To: <[email protected]>; >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM > > > >Mike, > > >Again you fail to understand the meaning... > > >Edgar > > > > >On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > >>Merle, >> >>Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries you >>weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! >> >>Mike >> >> >> >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; >>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM >> >> >> >> >> >>lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in >>helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle >> >> >> >>Edgar, >> >>Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... >> >>Mike >> >> >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>To: <[email protected]>; >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM >> >> >> >>Mike, >> >> >>All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes strawberries... >> >> >>However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying >>information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the >>strawberry... >> >> >>Edgar >> >> >> >> >> >> >>On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>>Bill! >>> >>>Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of >>>Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that as >>>'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what you >>>say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the Absolute. >>>Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who wouldn't >>>want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >>>To: <[email protected]>; >>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>Mike, >>> >>> >>>What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. >>> >>> >>>Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and >>>Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques >>>(counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are >>>employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion of >>>duality. >>> >>> >>>When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is >>>Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no >>>subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, no >>>experience/experience. There is Just THIS! >>> >>> >>>For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no >>>taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There >>>is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start >>>perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning >>>categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... >>> >>> >>>That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by >>>'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. >>> >>> >>>If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go to: >>>The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic illusion of >>>self/other. >>> >>> >>>...Bill! >>> >>> >>> >>>--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>Bill!, >>> >>>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? >>> >>>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get >>>passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. >>> >>>Mike >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > >
