Merle, Yes! Blake's a fruit of any description would take his mind of "reality" for a split second" is the same as tasting the strawberry. I agree!
...Bill! --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > >  i answered it..mike..in another post..... "sweet dreams are made of this" > > with all that drama going on behind the man... > a fruit of any description would take his mind of "reality" for a split > second and in that moment there is eternity and that to me describes the > essence of sweetness... > as in william blake's poem "to see the world in a grain of sand and eternity > in a flower"... > enjoy your berries especially the sweet ones.. > > merle > > >  > Merle, > > With pleasure! > > 18. A Parable > > Buddha told a parable in sutra: > > A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger after > him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a wild vine and > swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. > Trembling, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger was waiting > to eat him. Only the vine sustained him. > > Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to gnaw away the > vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one > hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted! > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > ________________________________ > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; > To: uerusuboyo@... <uerusuboyo@...>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:28:23 AM > > > mike..sorry..please repeat the koan..... merle > > Merle, > > Sorry Merle, I'm not sure I'm completely with you here. Do you know the koan > I mentioned? It's got nothing to do with myths, but I'd be interested in what > you think about it (Note that he didn't say "sour" nor eat the strawberry > passively). > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > ________________________________ > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 12:40:02 PM > > >  > > >  there you go i told you so it's a myth...merle > > >  > Mike, > > The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here at > the moment. > > Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. > > Edgar > > > > > On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > >  > >Chris, > > > >Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he > >wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how > >this koan could be irrelevant. > > > >Mike > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...>; > >To: <[email protected]>; > >Cc: <edgarowen@...>; > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > >Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > >The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and > >wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so > >open to what is. > >Thanks, > >--Chris > >301-270-6524 > > > >On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <uerusuboyo@...> wrote: > > > > > >> > >> > >>Edgar, > >> > >>Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the > >>perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the > >>cliff? He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? > >>Irrelevant? I don't think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding > >>paintings - looks like a happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) > >>that you're taking this perspective because you always argue that when > >>illusions are seen as illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never > >>enjoy anything? > >> > >>Mike > >> > >> > >> > >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >> > >> > >> > >>________________________________ > >> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>; > >>To: <[email protected]>; > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > >>Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM > >> > >> > >> > >>Mike, > >> > >> > >>Again you fail to understand the meaning... > >> > >> > >>Edgar > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > >> > >> > >>>Merle, > >>> > >>>Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries > >>>you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! > >>> > >>>Mike > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...>; > >>>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in > >>>helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Edgar, > >>> > >>>Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... > >>> > >>>Mike > >>> > >>> > >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>________________________________ > >>> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>; > >>>To: <[email protected]>; > >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Mike, > >>> > >>> > >>>All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes > >>>strawberries... > >>> > >>> > >>>However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying > >>>information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the > >>>strawberry... > >>> > >>> > >>>Edgar > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>Bill! > >>>> > >>>>Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of > >>>>Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that > >>>>as 'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what > >>>>you say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the > >>>>Absolute. Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. > >>>>Who wouldn't want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! > >>>> > >>>>Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>________________________________ > >>>> From: Bill! <BillSmart@...>; > >>>>To: <[email protected]>; > >>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita > >>>>Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Mike, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>Non-dualistic (holistic) experience  is the very essence of shikantaza > >>>>and Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned.  All zen teaching techniques > >>>>(counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are > >>>>employed to do one thing:  stop your intellect from creating the > >>>>illusion of duality. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is > >>>>Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual).  There is no > >>>>subject/object split.  There is no observer/observed, no > >>>>experience/experience.  There is Just THIS! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no > >>>>taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split.  > >>>>There is Just THIS!  It's later when your intellect kicks in and you > >>>>start perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start > >>>>assigning categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by > >>>>'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go > >>>>to:  The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic > >>>>illusion of self/other. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>...Bill! > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>Bill!, > >>>> > >>>>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting > shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If > they are experienced, who or what is > experiencing them? > >>>> > >>>>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get > >>>>passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. > >>>> > >>>>Mike > >>>> > >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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