*** RESET!!!! *** I screwed up below and copied the wrong section out of Merle's post. This SHOULD read:
Yes! Blake's "to see the world in a grain of sand and eternity in a flower" is the same as tasting the strawberry. I was also going to comment on the line I copied below but then decided not to. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Merle, > > Yes! Blake's a fruit of any description would take his mind of "reality" for > a split second" is the same as tasting the strawberry. I agree! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > >  i answered it..mike..in another post..... "sweet dreams are made of this" > > > > with all that drama going on behind the man... > > a fruit of any description would take his mind of "reality" for a split > > second and in that moment there is eternity and that to me describes the > > essence of sweetness... > > as in william blake's poem "to see the world in a grain of sand and > > eternity in a flower"... > > enjoy your berries especially the sweet ones.. > > > > merle > > > > > >  > > Merle, > > > > With pleasure! > > > > 18. A Parable > > > > Buddha told a parable in sutra: > > > > A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger > > after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a wild vine > > and swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. > > Trembling, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger was > > waiting to eat him. Only the vine sustained him. > > > > Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to gnaw away > > the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine > > with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it > > tasted! > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > To: uerusuboyo@ <uerusuboyo@>; > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:28:23 AM > > > > > > mike..sorry..please repeat the koan..... merle > > > > Merle, > > > > Sorry Merle, I'm not sure I'm completely with you here. Do you know the > > koan I mentioned? It's got nothing to do with myths, but I'd be interested > > in what you think about it (Note that he didn't say "sour" nor eat the > > strawberry passively). > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 12:40:02 PM > > > > > >  > > > > > >  there you go i told you so it's a myth...merle > > > > > >  > > Mike, > > > > The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here > > at the moment. > > > > Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > >  > > >Chris, > > > > > >Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he > > >wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how > > >this koan could be irrelevant. > > > > > >Mike > > > > > > > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > >________________________________ > > > From: Chris Austin-Lane <chris@>; > > >To: <[email protected]>; > > >Cc: <edgarowen@>; > > >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > >Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and > > >wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be > > >so open to what is. > > >Thanks, > > >--Chris > > >301-270-6524 > > > > > >On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >>Edgar, > > >> > > >>Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the > > >>perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the > > >>cliff? He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? > > >>Irrelevant? I don't think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding > > >>paintings - looks like a happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) > > >>that you're taking this perspective because you always argue that when > > >>illusions are seen as illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never > > >>enjoy anything? > > >> > > >>Mike > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>________________________________ > > >> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>; > > >>To: <[email protected]>; > > >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > >>Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>Mike, > > >> > > >> > > >>Again you fail to understand the meaning... > > >> > > >> > > >>Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >>>Merle, > > >>> > > >>>Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet > > >>>strawberries you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! > > >>> > > >>>Mike > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>________________________________ > > >>> From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > >>>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in > > >>>helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Edgar, > > >>> > > >>>Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... > > >>> > > >>>Mike > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>________________________________ > > >>> From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>; > > >>>To: <[email protected]>; > > >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Mike, > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes > > >>>strawberries... > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form > > >>>carrying information about how your biological organism relates to the > > >>>form of the strawberry... > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>Edgar > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > >>> > > >>> > > >>>>Bill! > > >>>> > > >>>>Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description > > >>>>of Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know > > >>>>that as 'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have > > >>>>that what you say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses > > >>>>on the Absolute. Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as > > >>>>truth. Who wouldn't want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! > > >>>> > > >>>>Mike > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>________________________________ > > >>>> From: Bill! <BillSmart@>; > > >>>>To: <[email protected]>; > > >>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita > > >>>>Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Mike, > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>Non-dualistic (holistic) experience  is the very essence of shikantaza > > >>>>and Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned.  All zen teaching > > >>>>techniques (counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, > > >>>>etc...) are employed to do one thing:  stop your intellect from > > >>>>creating the illusion of duality. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left > > >>>>is Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual).  There is no > > >>>>subject/object split.  There is no observer/observed, no > > >>>>experience/experience.  There is Just THIS! > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no > > >>>>taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split.  > > >>>>There is Just THIS!  It's later when your intellect kicks in and you > > >>>>start perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start > > >>>>assigning categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means > > >>>>by 'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go > > >>>>to:  The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic > > >>>>illusion of self/other. > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>...Bill! > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>>--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>Bill!, > > >>>> > > >>>>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting > > shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If > > they are experienced, who or what is > > experiencing them? > > >>>> > > >>>>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they > > >>>>get passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. > > >>>> > > >>>>Mike > > >>>> > > >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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