mike..yes that is another view point..merle Merle,
Far from saying he's taking his mind off reality, I'd say that the eating of the strawberry *is* the man's reality. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: [Zen] the strawberry myth echoes eternity Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 5:45:41 AM i answered it..mike..in another post..... "sweet dreams are made of this" with all that drama going on behind the man... a fruit of any description would take his mind of "reality" for a split second and in that moment there is eternity and that to me describes the essence of sweetness... as in william blake's poem "to see the world in a grain of sand and eternity in a flower"... enjoy your berries especially the sweet ones.. merle Merle, With pleasure! 18. A Parable Buddha told a parable in sutra: A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger after him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a wild vine and swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. Trembling, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger was waiting to eat him. Only the vine sustained him. Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to gnaw away the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted! Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:28:23 AM mike..sorry..please repeat the koan..... merle Merle, Sorry Merle, I'm not sure I'm completely with you here. Do you know the koan I mentioned? It's got nothing to do with myths, but I'd be interested in what you think about it (Note that he didn't say "sour" nor eat the strawberry passively). Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 12:40:02 PM there you go i told you so it's a myth...merle Mike, The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here at the moment. Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. Edgar On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, [email protected] wrote: >Chris, > >Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he >wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how this >koan could be irrelevant. > >Mike > > >Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > >________________________________ > From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]>; >To: <[email protected]>; >Cc: <[email protected]>; >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM > > > > > >The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and >wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so >open to what is. >Thanks, >--Chris >301-270-6524 > >On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> >>Edgar, >> >>Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the >>perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the cliff? >>He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? Irrelevant? I don't >>think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding paintings - looks like a >>happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you're taking this >>perspective because you always argue that when illusions are seen as >>illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never enjoy anything? >> >>Mike >> >> >> >>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> >> >>________________________________ >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>To: <[email protected]>; >>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM >> >> >> >>Mike, >> >> >>Again you fail to understand the meaning... >> >> >>Edgar >> >> >> >> >>On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>>Merle, >>> >>>Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries >>>you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; >>>To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in >>>helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle >>> >>> >>> >>>Edgar, >>> >>>Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... >>> >>>Mike >>> >>> >>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> >>> >>>________________________________ >>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>>To: <[email protected]>; >>>Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>>Mike, >>> >>> >>>All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes >>>strawberries... >>> >>> >>>However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying >>>information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the >>>strawberry... >>> >>> >>>Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Bill! >>>> >>>>Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of >>>>Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that as >>>>'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what you >>>>say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the Absolute. >>>>Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who wouldn't >>>>want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>> >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>________________________________ >>>> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >>>>To: <[email protected]>; >>>>Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>>Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Mike, >>>> >>>> >>>>What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. >>>> >>>> >>>>Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and >>>>Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques >>>>(counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are >>>>employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion >>>>of duality. >>>> >>>> >>>>When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is >>>>Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no >>>>subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, no >>>>experience/experience. There is Just THIS! >>>> >>>> >>>>For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no >>>>taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There >>>>is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start >>>>perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning >>>>categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... >>>> >>>> >>>>That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by >>>>'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. >>>> >>>> >>>>If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go to: >>>> The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic illusion >>>>of self/other. >>>> >>>> >>>>...Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>--- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Bill!, >>>> >>>>I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? >>>> >>>>I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get >>>>passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. >>>> >>>>Mike >>>> >>>>Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > >
