Mike, LOL! And then how SWEET the man tasted as the tigers ate HIM!
Edgar On May 18, 2013, at 12:15 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Merle, > > With pleasure! > > 18. A Parable > > Buddha told a parable in sutra: > > A man traveling across a field encountered a tiger. He fled, the tiger after > him. Coming to a precipice, he caught hold of the root of a wild vine and > swung himself down over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. > Trembling, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger was waiting > to eat him. Only the vine sustained him. > > Two mice, one white and one black, little by little started to gnaw away the > vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine with one > hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted! > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:28:23 AM > > mike..sorry..please repeat the koan..... merle > > Merle, > > Sorry Merle, I'm not sure I'm completely with you here. Do you know the koan > I mentioned? It's got nothing to do with myths, but I'd be interested in what > you think about it (Note that he didn't say "sour" nor eat the strawberry > passively). > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita > Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 12:40:02 PM > > > > there you go i told you so it's a myth...merle > > > Mike, > > The strawberry is an illusion in your mind. There are no strawberries here at > the moment. > > Neither is there any guy hanging from a cliff. > > Edgar > > > > On May 17, 2013, at 1:25 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Chris, >> >> Exactly. The man with no Zen would be so enveloped in regret/hope that he >> wouldn't be able to experience Suchness in that moment. I fail to see how >> this koan could be irrelevant. >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Chris Austin-Lane <[email protected]>; >> To: <[email protected]>; >> Cc: <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >> Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 5:14:39 AM >> >> >> >> The man in the story got sweetness when he was probably expecting fear and >> wanting a way out, but he was able to experience the sweetness. May I be so >> open to what is. >> Thanks, >> --Chris >> 301-270-6524 >> On May 16, 2013 10:10 PM, <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> Edgar, >> >> Sensation (chewing) comes before perception (sweetness). To attach to the >> perception of good/bad leads to suffering. But what of the man on the cliff? >> He _exclaimed_ that the strawberry tasted sweet! Not Zen? Irrelevant? I >> don't think so. What of the man in the last ox-herding paintings - looks >> like a happy chappy to me. I'm surprised (or maybe not) that you're taking >> this perspective because you always argue that when illusions are seen as >> illusions that is enlightenment. Or do you never enjoy anything? >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >> To: <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >> Sent: Fri, May 17, 2013 1:33:14 AM >> >> >> Mike, >> >> Again you fail to understand the meaning... >> >> Edgar >> >> >> On May 16, 2013, at 9:05 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >>> >>> Merle, >>> >>> Well it seems on this forum that if you've ever tasted sweet strawberries >>> you weren't practicing Zen... Talk about blind dogma! >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> From: Merle Lester <[email protected]>; >>> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>> Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 10:33:24 PM >>> >>> >>> >>> lucky you mike...sweet strawberries... the sweetest i ever tasted was in >>> helsinki finland in may 2005.. have yet to find any to compare..merle >>> >>> >>> Edgar, >>> >>> Yet it _does_ taste so sweet... >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>> >>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; >>> To: <[email protected]>; >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>> Sent: Thu, May 16, 2013 2:11:24 PM >>> >>> >>> Mike, >>> >>> All the forms of the world are Buddha Nature and that includes >>> strawberries... >>> >>> However the taste of the strawberry is in your mind, it's a form carrying >>> information about how your biological organism relates to the form of the >>> strawberry... >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 16, 2013, at 9:27 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Bill! >>>> >>>> Yet the strawberry tastes so sweet! I just feel that your description of >>>> Buddha Nature just doesn't seem to engage with life (and yet I know that >>>> as 'Bill!' you do!). I think it goes back to the feeling I have that what >>>> you say about Buddha Nature, although correct, only focuses on the >>>> Absolute. Life is recognising both the relative and absolute as truth. Who >>>> wouldn't want to enjoy the taste of a strawberry! >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> >>>> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >>>> To: <[email protected]>; >>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Advaita >>>> Sent: Wed, May 15, 2013 8:18:46 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Mike, >>>> >>>> What you are asking about is the very essence of zen, IMO. >>>> >>>> Non-dualistic (holistic) experience is the very essence of shikantaza and >>>> Buddha Nature as far as I'm concerned. All zen teaching techniques >>>> (counting breaths, koans, chanting, bowing, samu, kinhin, etc...) are >>>> employed to do one thing: stop your intellect from creating the illusion >>>> of duality. >>>> >>>> When you are able to do this, to wipe away all illusions, what is left is >>>> Buddha Nature or just holistic experience (sensual). There is no >>>> subject/object split. There is no observer/observed, no >>>> experience/experience. There is Just THIS! >>>> >>>> For example when you bite into a lemon there is no you/lemon split, no >>>> taste/smell split, no sour/sweet split, no lemon/other fruit split. There >>>> is Just THIS! It's later when your intellect kicks in and you start >>>> perceiving (rather than just experiencing) that you start assigning >>>> categories like lemon, yellow, sour, etc... >>>> >>>> That's what I mean by 'no observer' and that's what 'shikantaza' means by >>>> 'just sit', and 'clear mind' or 'no mind'. >>>> >>>> If you'd like to read in more detail what I think about this you can go >>>> to: The Origin of the Illusion of Self which is about the dualistic >>>> illusion of self/other. >>>> >>>> ...Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@... wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Bill!, >>>> >>>> I'm interested in your point that there is no observer when sitting >>>> shikantaza. If so, are all sensations in the body-mind not experienced? If >>>> they are experienced, who or what is experiencing them? >>>> >>>> I'm also interested in other member's perspectives on this when they get >>>> passed the "He said - she said" current thread.. >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >>>> > >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > >
