Edgar, Please...I don't know what definition of 'solipsism' you are working with but it doesn't correspond to my experience of Buddha Nature or practice of zen.
Solipsism : a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing; also : extreme egocentrism - Merriam-Webster Online ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > I AM your external reality! > > Get used to it. It's not going anywhere and exists whether you are wise > enough to admit it or not! > > Your view is NOT Zen. It's solipsism pure and simple.... > > > Edgar > > > > On May 19, 2013, at 4:06 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > You are about one-quarter right here. > > > > 'Cupness' is a human mental concept. It 'exists' only in the mind (which > > means it's an illusion) and not in reality (I deleted the qualifier > > 'external'). > > > > Nothing exists in external reality because there is no external reality. > > All 'information forms' (I'd call them 'logical forms or models' and I'd > > also call them illusory) are created by the human mind and used to create > > perceptions. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Bill, > > > > > > No, you don't understand. > > > > > > Cupness is a human mental concept. It exists only in mind and not in > > > external reality. > > > > > > What does exist in external reality are information forms that human > > > minds interpret as cups... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 18, 2013, at 7:02 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > Everything (well most things) we write and post here is rational or at > > > > least presented in a rational way. Our language for the most part is > > > > rational. > > > > > > > > You would not have written this because of the one word I pointed out: > > > > "impute". You would have used a word like 'discovered' or 'recognized' > > > > and implied that 'cupness' exists out there somewhere in the World of > > > > Forms. > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > > > My God! If I had written this everyone (including YOU) would be > > > > > pounding me for being too rational! > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 18, 2013, at 12:25 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > I copied this for you. It's regarding things having "essence": > > > > > > > > > > > > What is emptiness then? To understand the philosophical meaning of > > > > > > this term, let's look at a simple solid object, such as a cup. How > > > > > > is a cup empty? We usually say that a cup is empty if it does not > > > > > > contain any liquid or solid. This is the ordinary meaning of > > > > > > emptiness. But, is the cup really empty? A cup empty of liquids or > > > > > > solids is still full of air. To be precise, we must therefore state > > > > > > what the cup is empty of. Can a cup be empty of all substance? A > > > > > > cup in a vacuum does not contain any air, but it still contains > > > > > > space, light, radiation, as well as its own substance. Hence, from > > > > > > a physical point of view, the cup is always full of something. Yet, > > > > > > from the Buddhist point of view, the cup is always empty. The > > > > > > Buddhist understanding of emptiness is different from the physical > > > > > > meaning. The cup being empty means that it is devoid of inherent > > > > > > existence. > > > > > > > > > > > > What is meant with non-inherent existence? Is this to say that the > > > > > > cup does not ultimately exist? - Not quite. - The cup exists, but > > > > > > like everything in this world, its existence depends on other > > > > > > phenomena. There is nothing in a cup that is inherent to that > > > > > > specific cup or to cups in general. Properties such as being > > > > > > hollow, spherical, cylindrical, or leak-proof are not intrinsic to > > > > > > cups. Other objects which are not cups have similar properties, as > > > > > > for example vases and glasses. The cup's properties and components > > > > > > are neither cups themselves nor do they imply cupness on their own. > > > > > > The material is not the cup. The shape is not the cup. The function > > > > > > is not the cup. Only all these aspects together make up the cup. > > > > > > Hence, we can say that for an object to be a cup we require a > > > > > > collection of specific conditions to exist. It depends on the > > > > > > combination of function, use, shape, base material, and the cup's > > > > > > other aspects. Only if all these conditions exist simultaneously > > > > > > does the mind impute cupness to the object. If one condition ceases > > > > > > to exist, for instance, if the cup's shape is altered by breaking > > > > > > it, the cup forfeits some or all of its cupness, because the > > > > > > object's function, its shape, as well as the imputation of cupness > > > > > > through perception is disrupted. The cup's existence thus depends > > > > > > on external circumstances. Its physical essence remains elusive. > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@>; > > > > > > To: [email protected] <[email protected]>; > > > > > > Subject: [Zen] the strawberry myth > > > > > > Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 3:46:59 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > group.... > > > > > > the thing about a strawberry .. > > > > > > a quality strawberry..it is suppose to be sweet... > > > > > > that is what we expect from a strawberry... > > > > > > the very essence of it is it's sweetness.. > > > > > > a sour one well apart from the fact it puts us off eating it and it > > > > > > is a product that will not sell well in the markets... > > > > > > get real.. > > > > > > would you want to eat sour strawberries for desert?.. > > > > > > for christ sake.. > > > > > > sour strawberries will put you off eating them for life... > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not all about judgement > > > > > > > > > > > > it's about accepting the reality that the sour strawberry does not > > > > > > contain the essence of what it is to be a strawberry.. > > > > > > > > > > > > that's not rocket science.. > > > > > > and requires no more that a nod and a shake of the head then spit > > > > > > it out.. > > > > > > end of story.. > > > > > > let's not read into this strawberry caper.. > > > > > > create a myth and make it something to be set in stone for ever > > > > > > more ... > > > > > > > > > > > > amen.. > > > > > > merle > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! 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