Siska,
Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English,
us that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence
structure requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's
actions or relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's
no way to adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic)
experience in English.
The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called
'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their holistic
experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are not only
completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much as possible
without the use of a subject.
An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho:
JapaneseFuru ike yakawazu tobikomumizu no oto
Direct English TranslationOld pondfrog jumped insound of water
Reasonable English Translation (IMO)The old pondA frog jumped
in,Kerplunk!
A Bad English Translation (IMO)A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps
. . .Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . tillSuddenly into it a
lithe frog leaps.
You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem at
http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to
mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'.
>
> Ah I see...
>
> I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as you
said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use....
>
> Siska
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Bill!" BillSmart@...
> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill!
>
> Siska,
>
> I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to
mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times when
someone has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as saying,
"I have met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - meaning he
has experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or some other
zen master) has described.
>
> The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience is
that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why many
ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying to
rationally explain what they experienced.
>
> ...Bill!
>
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi again Bill,
> >
> > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences you
just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's term 'face
to face with the real Buddha'?
> >
> > Siska
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@
> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >
> >
> > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's
right.
> > ..Bill!
> >
>
