mike.. animals do not need to they just live..we are the crazy ones..searching for answers...to be or not to be..blah blah zen teaches just sit just drink just eat just sleep where are your zen principles NOW?
merle Bill!, I'd say the point here is that only Man takes these ultimate issues and have created paths to follow out of them. Whether these paths are illusions or delusions is beside the point (in regards to this ongoing thread). No other animal has created a spiritual or religious path which transcends their basic instincts. Man alone is unique in this regard. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad ________________________________ From: Bill! <[email protected]>; To: <[email protected]>; Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 8:12:28 AM Mike and Edgar, I do agree that the concepts of "God, the Absolute and Nirvana" are delusions (I've decided to switch from 'illusions' to 'delusions', but the meaning is the same as before). The question here is more "Do animals, other than humans, create delusions?" I say 'yes'. Any animal that has an intellect that creates dualism creates delusions - IMO. Animals and other sentient beings that don't have an intellect that creates dualism - like perhaps bacteria and plants - and only act on stimulus/response probably don't have delusions. This is of course just speculation on my part. I have no way to validate these statements. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Mike, > > As I'm sure even Bill would agree "God, the Absolute and Nirvana" are all > mental illusions. I don't see that humans discussing them does any good or > has any meaning at all or is any sense of pride.... > > Animals don't discuss reality, they live it! > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 24, 2013, at 9:26 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > I'm glad you said that not understanding the natural world is not zen. > > That's your goose cooked then. Humans are unique in the animal kingdom in > > being spiritual beings. Go on Dr Doolittle, tell us how you communicate > > with the animals and discuss God, the Absolute and Nirvana. > > > > Mike > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>; > > To: <[email protected]>; > > Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? > > Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:09:37 PM > > > > > > Bill and Mike, > > > > > > You guys are parroting generations old biology. Not understanding the > > natural world is not Zen... > > > > Statements such as yours demonstrates the lack of intelligence and empathy > > of humans, not animals... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 2013, at 6:52 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > >> > >> Mike, > >> > >> I agree with you that I know of no other animal, or any other sentient > >> being, that has that ability. But as I've said I'm not sure whether that > >> is a blessing or a curse. It's a bit of both I guess. > >> > >> ...Bill! > >> > >> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > >> > > >> > Merle,<br/><br/>That might be your point, but it's not mine. The tiger > >> > is doing nothing wrong by following its instincts and eating you: it's > >> > nothing personal - you're just lunch. I get that. But the tiger has no > >> > choice - it's blindly following its instinct to survive. It has no idea > >> > of the suffering it inflicts on you. Humans on the other hand can act > >> > against self-interest, even if it harms themselves, because of they have > >> > an awareness of the other's suffering. Just because there are more > >> > instances of the opposite occurring doesn't negate that we *do* have > >> > that ability to a much higher degree than any other animal. Like I said, > >> > it's not because we've been divinely chosen, but because of the quirks > >> > of evolution affecting human development. We are a spiritual animal. We > >> > know of no other animal that is so.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent > >> > from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > >> > > >> > > > > > > >
