Mike, Yes, I apologize to all cats everywhere for using the 'C' word! :-)
Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 9:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Edgar, > > Shock! Horror! You're denigrating cats by saying "cat fights". For shame, > trashing poor cats. > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? > Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 11:36:54 AM > > > Mike, > > > Strange, I don't see any evidence of that "spiritual path" on this forum! All > I see is continual cat fights.... > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 25, 2013, at 5:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> Bill!, >> >> I'd say the point here is that only Man takes these ultimate issues and have >> created paths to follow out of them. Whether these paths are illusions or >> delusions is beside the point (in regards to this ongoing thread). No other >> animal has created a spiritual or religious path which transcends their >> basic instincts. Man alone is unique in this regard. >> >> Mike >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> >> From: Bill! <[email protected]>; >> To: <[email protected]>; >> Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? >> Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 8:12:28 AM >> >> >> Mike and Edgar, >> >> I do agree that the concepts of "God, the Absolute and Nirvana" are >> delusions (I've decided to switch from 'illusions' to 'delusions', but the >> meaning is the same as before). >> >> The question here is more "Do animals, other than humans, create delusions?" >> >> I say 'yes'. Any animal that has an intellect that creates dualism creates >> delusions - IMO. Animals and other sentient beings that don't have an >> intellect that creates dualism - like perhaps bacteria and plants - and only >> act on stimulus/response probably don't have delusions. >> >> This is of course just speculation on my part. I have no way to validate >> these statements. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >> > >> > Mike, >> > >> > As I'm sure even Bill would agree "God, the Absolute and Nirvana" are all >> > mental illusions. I don't see that humans discussing them does any good or >> > has any meaning at all or is any sense of pride.... >> > >> > Animals don't discuss reality, they live it! >> > >> > Edgar >> > >> > >> > >> > On Jun 24, 2013, at 9:26 AM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: >> > >> > > Edgar, >> > > >> > > I'm glad you said that not understanding the natural world is not zen. >> > > That's your goose cooked then. Humans are unique in the animal kingdom >> > > in being spiritual beings. Go on Dr Doolittle, tell us how you >> > > communicate with the animals and discuss God, the Absolute and Nirvana. >> > > >> > > Mike >> > > >> > > >> > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad >> > > >> > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...>; >> > > To: <[email protected]>; >> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] rise above to where? >> > > Sent: Mon, Jun 24, 2013 12:09:37 PM >> > > >> > > >> > > Bill and Mike, >> > > >> > > >> > > You guys are parroting generations old biology. Not understanding the >> > > natural world is not Zen... >> > > >> > > Statements such as yours demonstrates the lack of intelligence and >> > > empathy of humans, not animals... >> > > >> > > Edgar >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Jun 24, 2013, at 6:52 AM, Bill! wrote: >> > > >> > >> >> > >> Mike, >> > >> >> > >> I agree with you that I know of no other animal, or any other sentient >> > >> being, that has that ability. But as I've said I'm not sure whether >> > >> that is a blessing or a curse. It's a bit of both I guess. >> > >> >> > >> ...Bill! >> > >> >> > >> --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > Merle,<br/><br/>That might be your point, but it's not mine. The >> > >> > tiger is doing nothing wrong by following its instincts and eating >> > >> > you: it's nothing personal - you're just lunch. I get that. But the >> > >> > tiger has no choice - it's blindly following its instinct to survive. >> > >> > It has no idea of the suffering it inflicts on you. Humans on the >> > >> > other hand can act against self-interest, even if it harms >> > >> > themselves, because of they have an awareness of the other's >> > >> > suffering. Just because there are more instances of the opposite >> > >> > occurring doesn't negate that we *do* have that ability to a much >> > >> > higher degree than any other animal. Like I said, it's not because >> > >> > we've been divinely chosen, but because of the quirks of evolution >> > >> > affecting human development. We are a spiritual animal. We know of no >> > >> > other animal that is so.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! >> > >> > Mail for iPad >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >
