Yes, yes totally agree. I just mentioned reading years ago that the Buddha said believe whatever's easier while following the middle way.
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:27 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > ** > > > Larry, > > Why would Zen be looking for a God? That would just be creating an > unnecessary dualism. The universe works perfectly well without the need to > create a Creator. > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > ------------------------------ > * From: * larry maher <[email protected]>; > * To: * <[email protected]>; > * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Re: the human body > * Sent: * Sat, Aug 24, 2013 6:20:48 AM > > > > Zen is a religion looking for a God. The Buddha said 'there is no way to > prove God and there is no way to not prove, so believe whatever works for > you.' That's why I like Eastern thought, Hindu's cool also, just too many > gimics and sideshows and people thinking dressing in white bathrobes helps > get you somewhere. Lots of culture confusion. Just my opinion. > > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Merle Lester <[email protected]>wrote: > >> ** >> >> >> >> >> from what i gather you would not have zen if you did not have >> buddhism..correct me if i am incorrect..merle >> >> Merle, >> >> Yes. IMO zen is not an exclusive subset or sect of Buddhism. >> >> Buddhism is a religion has does have many, many lists of principles, >> dogma, doctrines, rituals, precepts, vows, etc... All these IMO have >> nothing directly to do with zen, but in the case of Zen Buddhism are like >> an add-on covering and adornments that are wrapped around zen. In the case >> of most other Buddhist sects zen does not play any part, and is in fact >> seen as a cult. >> >> This is why I draw a distinction between zen with a lower-case 'z' which >> is a common noun and refers only the zen in general, and Zen with an >> upper-case 'Z' which is a proper noun referring to Zen Buddhism. >> >> This again is IMO and is not the traditional view of Zen Buddhism...by >> those that identify themselves as Zen Buddhists. >> >> ...Bill! >> >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >  hallo bill...so tell me why oh why is the classification referred to >> as zen buddhism?... can you have zen without buddhist principles?... merle >> >  >> > Merle, >> > >> > As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a >> Buddhist. >> > >> > I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because >> I practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. >> What it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those >> delusions. >> > >> > ...Bill! >> > >> > ...Bill! >> > >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >  bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist are >> you?..merle >> > >  >> > > Merle, >> > > >> > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who >> doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language >> as I do. Someone ELSE! >> > > >> > > ...Bill! >> > > >> > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >  bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why not >> you?...merle >> > > >  >> > > > Merle, >> > > > >> > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of pain >> as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be bad; and >> maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this pain? >> What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!". >> > > > >> > > > ...Bill! >> > > > >> > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> >> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ have you been in pain bill..and thought it >> was judgemental delusion?...merle >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > Merle, >> > > > > >> > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post >> below. >> > > > > >> > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is >> Buddha Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental >> delusion. Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it >> as 'a red bird' is the delusion. >> > > > > >> > > > > ...Bill! >> > > > > >> > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> >> wrote: >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ bill...i see...so if >> one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to someone bowled >> over and in agony...merle >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > Merle, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as >> through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves >> a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > ...Bill! >> > > > > > >> > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Merle, >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least >> as far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford >> awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not >> only humans but all beings as we know them. >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ...Bill! >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> >> wrote: >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i >> go..ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we >> are in cyber space.... although we need the body to get the messages out >> there...mm that has me stumped! >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation >> ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ state that can be achieved once >> one has surpassed the breath counting saga? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ i have belief >> that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can slow the whole >> body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on >> slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so >> to speak? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging >> in the body that we do not have any control over what so ever... >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own >> thing regardless)... >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the >> gut >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ my zen question >> is thus: ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ to be totally free ..the >> human body is it a restraint? >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ merle >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ >> > > > > > > > Merle >> > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > -- > *Larry Maher* > > > -- *Larry Maher*
