Born is NJ raised by an immigrant Irish mother and father in a mostly Italian section of NY. My father's people are Irish-American from NY a few generations back. I was raised Catholic and left the minute no one was looking. I've been looking for God all my life in the easiest spots I could find:)
On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 4:09 AM, Merle Lester <[email protected]>wrote: > ** > > > > > i'm australian...estonian parents..came to sydney in 1949 as > refugees..merle > > > I think we looking for an American buddhism. Want to be it? > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:41 AM, Merle Lester <[email protected]>wrote: > > ** > > > so what is american...?...merle > > > Chan is Chinese interpretation zen is Japanese. Tibean is Dali Lama? > > > On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 2:30 AM, Merle Lester <[email protected]>wrote: > > ** > > > > Bill...still confused...so zen is chan...?..if you wish to experience > buddha nature directly you do zen?... no buddhism involved... > so why are you desiring to experience buddha nature and then claim it has > nothing to do with buddhism?... merle > > Merle, > > Well, that all depends on what you mean by 'zen'. > > I've defined what I mean by zen (lower-case 'z') many, many times on this > forum and elsewhere. A short version of that definition is: a set of > teachings and techniques that first lead you to directly experience reality > (a.k.a. Buddha Nature); and then helps you integrate that experience into > every facet of your daily life. > > These techniques (zazen, chanting, bowing, koans, etc...)do not have to be > associated with Buddhism. If they are then that is Zen Buddhism, and in > that case the teachings are encased in the language of Buddhism. This is > fact is how I was introduced to zen, via a Japanese form of Zen Buddhism. > > To sum up, I believe zen is not in any way dependent upon Buddhism, > Buddhist teachings, dogmas, doctrine or practices. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > > > > >  > >  from what i gather you would not have zen if you did not have > buddhism..correct me if i am incorrect..merle > >  > > Merle, > > > > Yes. IMO zen is not an exclusive subset or sect of Buddhism. > > > > Buddhism is a religion has does have many, many lists of principles, > dogma, doctrines, rituals, precepts, vows, etc... All these IMO have > nothing directly to do with zen, but in the case of Zen Buddhism are like > an add-on covering and adornments that are wrapped around zen. In the case > of most other Buddhist sects zen does not play any part, and is in fact > seen as a cult. > > > > This is why I draw a distinction between zen with a lower-case 'z' which > is a common noun and refers only the zen in general, and Zen with an > upper-case 'Z' which is a proper noun referring to Zen Buddhism. > > > > This again is IMO and is not the traditional view of Zen Buddhism...by > those that identify themselves as Zen Buddhists. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  hallo bill...so tell me why oh why is the classification referred > to as zen buddhism?... can you have zen without buddhist principles?... > merle > > >  > > > Merle, > > > > > > As you should very well know by now I don't identify with being a > Buddhist. > > > > > > I do however practice zen and have for over 45 years; but just because > I practice zen doesn't mean I don't feel pain, or have other delusions. > What it means is that (most of the time) I am not attached to those > delusions. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  bill...acceptance is the key...what sort odf a zen buddhist > are you?..merle > > > >  > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > Yes! Why me? Why not someone else? Someone I don't like? Someone who > doesn't look like me or is the same color as me or speaks the same language > as I do. Someone ELSE! > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ bill...not why me...that's plain silly..why > not you?...merle > > > > > ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > I have been in pain before. When I am in pain I don't think of > pain as a judgmental delusion, I think of it as pain and judge it to be > bad; and maybe even think "Poor, poor me! Why do I have to suffer all this > pain? What did I do to deserve this? I just want it to go away!". > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ have you been in pain > bill..and thought it was judgemental delusion?...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't know how you got from what I said earlier to your post > below. > > > > > > > > > > > > The experience of feeling/touch is real. That experience is > Buddha Nature. The classification of it as 'pain' is the judgmental > delusion. Just as the experience of sight is real. The classification of it > as 'a red bird' is the delusion. > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > bill...i > see...so if one is in pain..this is an illusion..try telling that to > someone bowled over and in agony...merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also want to add that experiencing Buddha Nature, such as > through zazen, does not involve a disconnection with the body. It involves > a disconnection with the illusion of self and all dualism. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, the body is not a restraint. It is a gateway - at least > as far as zen is concerned. The body, or at least its ability to afford > awareness of reality, is the necessary component of Buddha Nature for not > only humans but all beings as we know them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester > <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i know this is a little crazy..however here i > go..ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the human body..can we exist without it?...we do when we > are in cyber space.... although we need the body to get the messages out > there...mm that has me stumped! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > would this body less be liken to the meditation > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > state > that can be achieved once one has surpassed the breath counting saga? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ i > have belief that monks can practise a form of meditation whereby the can > slow the whole body/ mind totally down to an almost non existent state > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in all the many previous post there has been much focus on > slowing the mind down..however the body..does it have a mind of it's own so > to speak? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > after all there are millions of tiny organisms..rummaging > in the body that we do not have any control over what so ever... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (meditate as long and hard as you want, they do their own > thing regardless)... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a whole eco system...one could say a universe lies in the > gut > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ my > zen question is thus: > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ to > be totally free ..the human body is it a restraint? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > merle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > > > > > > > > Merle > > > > > > > > > www.wix.com/merlewiitpom/1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > *Larry Maher* > > > > > > -- > *Larry Maher* > > > > -- *Larry Maher*
