Hi wai,
I�d like to offer two comments to your reply:
First, a general comment � have you ever considered
that maybe you are taking the words uttered by various
Masters too literally? You should be aware that
Buddhas, Patriarchs, and Masters are all about
utilizing upaya, or skillful, expedient means, when
expounding the teaching. That is to say, they will
look into each individual being, and adjust their
utterances based on the case at hand. To some, they
would prescribe an antidote that tells them that the
path to liberation is by using the mind-only practice,
to some others they would prescribe the no-mind path,
and so on. Put together, their teachings sometimes may
appear contradictory, even meaningless, but this is
simply because there is no universal formula, no
across-the-board equation that applies to everyone
under all imaginable circumstances.
You cannot easily subsume various teachings expounded
by various Masters and come up with the �least common
denominator�. If you study Zen literature more
carefully, you�ll be able to notice many seemingly
incoherent utterances, which seem to contradict each
other. This doesn�t mean that Zen is illogical, as
some people claim, but only that it is operating
strictly in the upaya mode.
My second comment pertains to your contention that I
am missing the boat because I am not using the
non-thinking. Where did you get that idea from? When
did I say that I�m not into non-thinking? Again, I
looks to me like you are taking my words, as well as
the words of the Masters you�ve mentioned here, too
literally, too much at their face value.
Sometimes it�s a good thing to read between the lines
a bit, to try and scratch the surface.
Thanks for contributing your valuable thoughts to this
discussion.
Alex
--- wai_dk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I find it relatively easier to believe you on what
> you say about
> Madhyamika than on what you say about Zen. After
> all, you've spent 22
> years with Madhyamika but very little time on Zen, a
> fair assumption,
> I hope? But the more important reason that I can't
> buy your version
> of Zen is that what you have been saying so far is
> very, very
> different (in fact quite contrary) from what I've
> heard from the Zen
> masters/roshis that I've personally known or read
> about.
>
> The following is an excerpt from Maezumi Roshi's
> book, Appreciate
> Your Life: The Essence of Zen Practice:
>
> "In his Universal Promotion of the Principles of
> Zazen
> (Fukanzazengi), Dogen Zenji writes, 'Think of
> not-thinking. How do
> you think of not-thinking? Non-thinking. This in
> itself is the
> essential art of zazen.' In other words, penetrate
> into one point,
> into the nondual state.
> The way to realize yourself one hundred percent is
> to penetrate into
> samadhi, the state of nonthinking. As long as we
> remain within the
> confines of the thinking mind, we can't experience
> the state of
> nonthinking. If we can't experience nonthinking, we
> will not
> understand what our life truly is. Please realize
> this for yourself.
> Just sit!
> Just-sitting is perhaps the most difficult thing to
> do. For in order
> to just-sit, we have to forget the self. What does
> that mean? There
> are no thoughts because there is no thinker.
> Instead, we are the
> thoughts that come up. There are no bird songs
> because there are no
> concepts of bird songs. Instead, we are those
> sounds. In the same way
> we are the raindrops, we are the thunder and the
> lightning. In
> sitting, the whole universe is revealed and
> manifested."
>
> The Zen school which I follow, Master Seung Sahn's
> Kwan Um School of
> Zen, also teaches pretty much the same thing, i.e.
> nonthinking.
> Several friends of mine who are very experienced
> students of Yamada
> Koun Roshi (Aitken Roshi's teacher) tell me that
> nonthinking is also
> their essential teaching.
>
> Master Sheng Yen said, "If you let go of every
> object of thought, you
> will be instinguishable from everything, and you
> will disappear."
>
> So four highly established and creditable Zen
> lineages (two Japanese,
> one Korean, one Chinese) teach essentially
> nonthinking. And
> Rinzai/Lin Chi's teacher Huang Po says, "The wise
> eschews thoughts
> but not phenomena. The ignorant eschews phenomena
> but not thoughts."
>
> And outside of Zen, even Dzogchen (the highest
> teaching in Tibetan
> Buddhism), Ramana Maharshi, Osho, etc, also teach
> nonthinking.
>
> This is of course not saying that thinking is
> completely useless.
> Just that before we are enlightened, thinking (and
> its construct of
> ego) controls us. But after one becomes enlightened,
> then thinking
> becomes our servant and can be used compassionately
> and free from
> attachment.
>
> You are up against Huang Po, Dogen, Maezumi, Yamada
> Koun, Seung Sahn,
> Sheng Yen, Dzogchen, Ramana Maharshi, Osho.
> So, I'm sorry Alex, I can't buy your version of Zen.
>
> > The seed of Buddha-nature is just another
> > superstitious concept. There is no such thing.
>
> Please give yourself thirty blows, the Buddha said
> everything has
> Buddha-nature.
>
> Thanks once again for your insights.
>
> wai
>
=====
No karma was produced during the composition of this letter
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right
Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
