Hi Anders

You can definitely explain much better than I do. Thank you.

But, according to the rules of Street Fighting Zen, I should be 
saying:
Gonadless bitching kicks ass better than lesbian pussy stoner 
drivelling bullshit. :->>

wai
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Anders Honore" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:09:17 -0400, "AC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> said:
> > From: wai_dk Social reform actually starts with self-
> > reform.>>
> > 
> > It is a great cop-out to say that you are going to help others 
right
> > after your life is perfect and you have achieved enlightenment. 
It is
> > also contrary to what Zen is supposedly about, since it is 
the "Big
> > Vehicle" which is supposed to help others FIRST.
> 
> that is not quite true. One classic story when a chan master was 
asked
> what his compassionate activity was, he responded 'meditation'. I 
know
> of no sutra who extols people to put off enlightenment in order to 
help
> beings now. that would be contrary to the concept of Upaya. The 
vows of
> the Bodhisattva only involve putting of parinirvana for the sake of 
all
> living beings, and even then, we could argue for a long time about
> whether the vows truly mean that.
>  
> > Personally, I think it is pretty cynical for the Buddhists of 
every sect
> > to be mining the wealthy Western nations for money and converts 
while
> > they basically run away from the myriad problems that exist in 
their own
> > communities and nearby. 
> 
> I agree that perhaps there should be a larger Buddhist 
representation in
> poorer parts of the world, but the reason why it is primarily the 
west
> that has taken to it is that it is the region which has the funds to
> seek it out. This is quite an important point, because Buddhism 
does not
> do missionary work in the same way Christians do.
> 
> Monks are for instance, forbidden to teach lay people without being
> requested to do so, just like they are forbidden to ask for 
anything,
> unless there is the implicit and preferebaly express consent prior 
to
> the request that the person being asked would like to donate. All 
these
> rules are centered around the concept of Dana (giving) and a 
principle
> of not forcing this. Thus monks will (ideally) be all to happy to 
share
> the Dharma with anyone who may show any interest in this, but will 
not
> actively go out to recruit, as this sharing has to happen in the 
spirit
> of Dana. Likewise, they can only receive their life neccesities from
> those who willingly give it to them.
> 
> The west have had the means to share and receive this far more
> efficiently than elsewhere. It poses a bit of a problem of course,
> because how will it spread then to other parts of the world? Much 
slower
> than it has in the west, I am afraid.
>  
> > After 2000 years or so of Buddhism in the East, most of those 
nations are
> > Communist or Dictatorships and in poverty. So I have to wonder if
> > retreating into a cave to seek self-improvement is such a good 
idea?
> 
> There is plenty to suggest that there are far more pressing factors 
than
> this at work in their industrial and political developmentcompared 
to
> the west.
> 
> > Does
> > anyone have any historical information on how Buddhism improved 
the
> > social infrastructure of any particular nation? I mean, you look 
back
> > across the ocean, and Buddhism comes to America from a bunch of 
ruined
> > nations (with the exception of Japan).
> 
> And Taiwan, and Singapore and Thailand and South Korea and possibly 
even
> Vietnam.
> 
> I am not sure how there is evidence that Christianity has improved
> infrastructures like this. Most of these western innovations have 
come
> from a stream of thought that has been in many ways directly 
contrary to
> the church.



------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
$9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right 
Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

Reply via email to