On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:09:17 -0400, "AC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > From: wai_dk Social reform actually starts with self- > reform.>> > > It is a great cop-out to say that you are going to help others right > after your life is perfect and you have achieved enlightenment. It is > also contrary to what Zen is supposedly about, since it is the "Big > Vehicle" which is supposed to help others FIRST.
that is not quite true. One classic story when a chan master was asked what his compassionate activity was, he responded 'meditation'. I know of no sutra who extols people to put off enlightenment in order to help beings now. that would be contrary to the concept of Upaya. The vows of the Bodhisattva only involve putting of parinirvana for the sake of all living beings, and even then, we could argue for a long time about whether the vows truly mean that. > Personally, I think it is pretty cynical for the Buddhists of every sect > to be mining the wealthy Western nations for money and converts while > they basically run away from the myriad problems that exist in their own > communities and nearby. I agree that perhaps there should be a larger Buddhist representation in poorer parts of the world, but the reason why it is primarily the west that has taken to it is that it is the region which has the funds to seek it out. This is quite an important point, because Buddhism does not do missionary work in the same way Christians do. Monks are for instance, forbidden to teach lay people without being requested to do so, just like they are forbidden to ask for anything, unless there is the implicit and preferebaly express consent prior to the request that the person being asked would like to donate. All these rules are centered around the concept of Dana (giving) and a principle of not forcing this. Thus monks will (ideally) be all to happy to share the Dharma with anyone who may show any interest in this, but will not actively go out to recruit, as this sharing has to happen in the spirit of Dana. Likewise, they can only receive their life neccesities from those who willingly give it to them. The west have had the means to share and receive this far more efficiently than elsewhere. It poses a bit of a problem of course, because how will it spread then to other parts of the world? Much slower than it has in the west, I am afraid. > After 2000 years or so of Buddhism in the East, most of those nations are > Communist or Dictatorships and in poverty. So I have to wonder if > retreating into a cave to seek self-improvement is such a good idea? There is plenty to suggest that there are far more pressing factors than this at work in their industrial and political developmentcompared to the west. > Does > anyone have any historical information on how Buddhism improved the > social infrastructure of any particular nation? I mean, you look back > across the ocean, and Buddhism comes to America from a bunch of ruined > nations (with the exception of Japan). And Taiwan, and Singapore and Thailand and South Korea and possibly even Vietnam. I am not sure how there is evidence that Christianity has improved infrastructures like this. Most of these western innovations have come from a stream of thought that has been in many ways directly contrary to the church. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
