Fudo: "Saying "aha" is just such a something extra." But what action ISN'T something extra? (And what inaction isn't itself an action?)
Its not that I agree with PJ, that the realization/knowledge that "nothing continues" is of superior value. However the claim "in Soto zen at least, I was taught to bring nothing extra" seems as though you think "training" has taught you a way to act, think, be which brings "less" than someone saying "aha" or "ouch". I didn't think there were measureable quantities of too little, nothing extra, extra, ect. Have I misunderstood? Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: fudo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:07 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Zen] Illustrating the awakening [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Awakening is not something added, but it is a shift of perception or > intuition. It isn't just seeing the world without our personal thoughts > or impressions, it is a knowing that nothing continues from moment to > moment. It is an aha that completely shatters how we assumed things are. Dear PJ, And what is the idea that something continues from moment to moment but a personal perception that must be dropped? Wouldn't seeing what is without this particular mistaken personal perception in fact be just seeing what really is without personal thoughts and perceptions? What more have you included here that was left out before? This seems to be something extra. A concept that is not required. In Soto zen at least, I was taught to bring nothing extra. It is my contention the the Aha! shatters nothing, it is merely a reaction to the shattering that has to have already occurred before it can be perceived. ..even the "Aha!" is something extra. It is just an acknowledgment of what has already happened. It is like saying "ouch!" after you have already burned your finger. Saying "ouch" does not burn your finger. The "ouch" does not cause your finger burning. It is merely a reaction to it. Not saying "ouch" does not mean you did not burn your finger, it does not mean you do not need to tend to your wound. It is in fact, something extra. A note of empahsis that may not be needed at all. If you are a child saying "ouch" will bring Mommy to tend to your wound. It will not heal it all by itself, and it did not make your finger hurt. As an adult, when there is no one around to hear and tend to you ..saying "ouch" has no real purpose. It is just something extra we do to entertain ourselves. Saying "aha" is just such a something extra. Be Well Fudo Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
