Oof! Well done on a honest and thorough depiction of your question. Of course, when you light a fire, all the wolves know where you are sleeping ;>
"Getting nothing out of Zazen" is a very profound statement, which would be difficulty to take too seriously. I think you may be looking at it as too simple an observation. I'm reminded of a quote that said, "I obtained not the slightest thing from complete unexcelled awakening -- that is why it is called complete unexcelled awakenening". I get a bucket-load out of my own meditation -- with practice I get less. Zen (capital Z) is indeed a name for a historical practice. There are other practices as well arguably more or less wise, suitable. Zazen without a true Zen practice, isn't really Zazen (nod to Fudo). I would call it meditating (which you're also not to take anything out of) which, by the way, you might be called well-practiced if you don't bring anything IN to it also. ...and I have to laugh at the misnomer "hole zen practice"! By practicing zen, I swallow the hole thing! All my best, Rod Scholl -----Original Message----- From: Francisco Garcia Eymael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:29 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Zen] Ideological Identity Folks, Hi, how are you all? Sometimes, I wonder whether zazen could be described as ceremony which main goal, counsciously or not, is to reaffirm our collective identity as zen followers. That�s why orthodox zen teachers tell you that there is nothing to gain from zazen. Zazen is only one of the ways by which you can express your zen nature, or your identification with the perceived Existence. If that�s true, then the hole zen practice can be seen as a way of expressing this identification, and is consequently subject to historical circunstances. So, if in Eastern Asia, the monastic way was the ideal expression of this zen nature, which will be the ideal expression in the contemporary, industrial, western world? Regards. Francisco. Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give hope to a child. Helping a needy child is easier than you think. Click here to meet someone who needs your help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6JB_B/iJlJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
