Dear Rod, Francisco, and all Sangha, Yes, I think of it like "getting nothing you expect to gain out of zazen". If I believe in an "ideal expression" of zen nature, that's just more expectation.
Thanks, Diana --- Rod Scholl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Oof! > > Well done on a honest and thorough depiction of your > question. Of course, when you light a fire, all the > wolves know where you are sleeping ;> > > "Getting nothing out of Zazen" is a very profound > statement, which would be difficulty to take too > seriously. I think you may be looking at it as too > simple an observation. I'm reminded of a quote that > said, "I obtained not the slightest thing from > complete unexcelled awakening -- that is why it is > called complete unexcelled awakenening". I get a > bucket-load out of my own meditation -- with > practice I get less. > > Zen (capital Z) is indeed a name for a historical > practice. There are other practices as well > arguably more or less wise, suitable. Zazen without > a true Zen practice, isn't really Zazen (nod to > Fudo). I would call it meditating (which you're > also not to take anything out of) which, by the way, > you might be called well-practiced if you don't > bring anything IN to it also. > > ...and I have to laugh at the misnomer "hole zen > practice"! By practicing zen, I swallow the hole > thing! > > All my best, > > Rod Scholl > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Francisco Garcia Eymael > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 10:29 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [Zen] Ideological Identity > > > > > > Folks, > > Hi, how are you all? > > Sometimes, I wonder whether zazen could be > described as > ceremony which main goal, counsciously or not, is to > reaffirm our > collective identity as zen followers. > That�s why orthodox zen teachers tell you > that there is > nothing to gain from zazen. Zazen is only one of the > ways by which > you can express your zen nature, or your > identification with the > perceived Existence. > If that�s true, then the hole zen practice > can be seen as a > way of expressing this identification, and is > consequently subject to > historical circunstances. > So, if in Eastern Asia, the monastic way was > the ideal > expression of this zen nature, which will be the > ideal expression in > the contemporary, industrial, western world? > > Regards. > > Francisco. > > > > > > > > > Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, > Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right > Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Give hope to a child. Helping a needy child is easier than you think. Click here to meet someone who needs your help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6JB_B/iJlJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
