I Can Only Speak From My Experience In Shogoji
Monastery In Japan, But I Did Not Come Away From This
Experience With The Impression Soto Zen Was Some Sort
Of Meditation Cult Where The Less Than Physically
Perfect Need Not Apply. I Often Sat In A Chair Or On
The Edge Of A Tan With My Feet On The Floor, And Since
The Abbot Offered To Transmit The Precepts To Me I Got
No Sence Of Disapproval. I Am Not So Naive As To
Pretend My Experience Is Universal, But I Did Learn
Not To Believe Every Thing I Read. In My Experience
There Was A Right Way To Do Every Thing From Getting
Up To Going To Bed And The Right Way To Sit Was Less
Attended To Then The Right Way To Cook, Eat, Or Take A
Bath. I Must Admit This Was A Bit Different From What
I Expected From The Reading Of Popular English Texts.
I Have Lots Of Criticisms Of Soto As Practiced In
Modern Japan, But I Cannot Confirm Yours From My
Personal Experiences. Be Well, Fudo
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This distinction between silent illumination (the
Chan term) and
> quietism is important. Actually I think the active
samadhi, active
> natural mind of Huineng and Dogen are identical.
Dogen's idea of
> buddha activity distinguishes his Zen from any
quietism. We are buddha
> therefore we do because Buddha does. The great wind
reaches everywhere
> that's why we fan (Practice) ourselves.
> Yet I think to be fair and honest with alex's
objections has not soto
> zen fallen into a posture fetish? ie. a tendency to
identify awakened
> activity with the external points of formal
practice. needing to sit
> 2x as long as others because you use the half lotus?
(In japanese
> training monastery) being told you can't practice
zazen because of
> physical limitations? what happened to the universal
religion? only
> the physically fit need apply? yes we can dismiss
these tendencies as
> invalid but don't they arise from a not so hidden
bias in the
> practice/teachings? Dare i say it? a certain
japanese formalism.
> Compare this with either Chan style of Hongzhi or
with a similar
> teaching in the tibetan tradition Dzogchen/mahamudra
(both of which
> I've practiced) where the practice is
"looser"--posture, etiquette,
> sitting rounds, etc as the emphasis is clearly on
the state of Being
> not the physical form (after all za does mean to
sit) nor is sitting
> exalted as THE practice. I say this not just to be
questioning but
> because it is (at least for me) a real concern.
perhaps this concern
> is behind alex's thoughts however much his position
can be refuted by
> text based arguement? maybe it merits further
reflection? Is there a
> tendency in the practice and by teachers and
students to make zazen
> into a fetish at the expense of Unborn Buddha Mind?
>
> --- In [email protected], Alex Bunard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Great! Thanks for your help, Genry. I'll see if I
come
> > up with any additional questions, but for now I
like
> > that you've pointed out the difference between
> > quietism and just sitting.
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > --- Rev Genryu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Alex Bunard
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Zen] The Platform Sutra of the
Sixth
> > > Patriarch of Zen
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Genryu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > 3. "Since the scope of the mind is for great
> > > objects,
> > > we should not practice such trivial acts (as
sitting
> > > quietly with a blank mind)."
> > >
> > > Here, in quote #3, he is condemning the practice
of
> > > sitting quietly. Am I right in interpreting it
that
> > > was? Am I wrong? Did he mean something else by
> > > uttering the above words? Was he trying to
actually
> > > praise quiet sitting?
> > >
> > > Sitting quietly with a blank mind and just
sitting
> > > are not the same thing.
> > >
> > > 4. "Learned Audience, to practice the 'Samadhi
of
> > > Specific Mode' is to make it a rule to be
> > > straightforward on all occasions - no matter
whether
> > > we are walking, standing, sitting or reclining."
> > >
> > > Here, in quote #4, he is explaining how
important a
> > > particular, correct state of mind is, and how
> > > unimportant the body posture actually is. You
> > > disagree?
> > >
> > > Again, Hui Neng is not referring to any
particular
> > > state of mind. Samadhi is not a particular state
of
> > > mind. Nor is mind seperate from the body. The
advice
> > > here is the same as that of the Buddha when he
> > > taught Bahiya.
> > >
> > > "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus:
'In
=== Message Truncated ===
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