----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Bunard To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 12:01 AM Subject: Re: [Zen] The Platform Sutra of the Sixth Patriarch of Zen
--- Genryu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 3. "Since the scope of the mind is for great objects, we should not practice such trivial acts (as sitting quietly with a blank mind)." Here, in quote #3, he is condemning the practice of sitting quietly. Am I right in interpreting it that was? Am I wrong? Did he mean something else by uttering the above words? Was he trying to actually praise quiet sitting? Sitting quietly with a blank mind and just sitting are not the same thing. 4. "Learned Audience, to practice the 'Samadhi of Specific Mode' is to make it a rule to be straightforward on all occasions - no matter whether we are walking, standing, sitting or reclining." Here, in quote #4, he is explaining how important a particular, correct state of mind is, and how unimportant the body posture actually is. You disagree? Again, Hui Neng is not referring to any particular state of mind. Samadhi is not a particular state of mind. Nor is mind seperate from the body. The advice here is the same as that of the Buddha when he taught Bahiya. "Herein, Bahiya, you should train yourself thus: 'In the seen will be merely what is seen; in the heard will be merely what is heard; in the sensed will be merely what is sensed; in the cognised will be merely what is cognised.' In this way you should train yourself, Bahiya. "When, Bahiya, in the seen is merely what is seen... in the cognised is merely what is cognised, then, Bahiya, you will not be 'with that' ; when, Bahiya, you are not 'with that,' then, Bahiya, you will not be 'in that'; when, Bahiya, you are not 'in that,' then, Bahiya, you will be neither here nor beyond nor in between the two. Just this is the end of suffering." 5. "People under delusion believe obstinately in Dharmalaksana (things and form) and so they are stubborn in having their own way of interpreting the 'Samadhi of Specific Mode', which they define as 'sitting quietly and continuously without letting any idea arise in the mind'. Such an interpretation would rank us with inanimate objects, and is a stumbling block to the right Path which must be kept open. Should we free our mind from attachment to all 'things', the Path becomes clear; otherwise, we put ourselves under restraint. If that interpretation 'sitting quietly and continuously, etc.' be correct, why on one occasion was Sariputra reprimanded by Vimalakirti for sitting quietly in the wood?" Here, in quote #5, Hui-neng is warning us against being attached to any particular mode of practice, and especially against attaching to sitting quietly. Even Vimalakirti was against it (see the pointer to the Vimalakirti's encounter with a seated Sariputra). Nothing to do with being attached to any particular mode of practice. Again Hui Neng's concern is with those who mistake just sitting with blank quietism, which it is not. 7. This is what transpired during the interview with Chi Ch'end: "How does your teacher instruct his disciples?" asked the Patriarch. "He tells us to meditate on purity, to keep up the sitting position all the time and not to lie down," replied Chi Ch'eng. "To meditate on purity," said the Patriarch, "is an infirmity and not Dhyana. To restrict oneself to the sitting position all the time is unprofitable. Listen to my stanza: A living man sits and does not lie down (all the time), While a dead man lies down and does not sit. On this physical body of ours Why should we impose the task of sitting?" Here, in quote #7, Hui-neng plainly explains how sitting position is unprofitable. Why should we impose the task of sitting on this physical body of ours? is what the Patriarch is asking. Have you got a legible answer to this, venerable sir? Once more you demonstrate your ignorance of both Hui Neng and the context of the Platform Sutra. Hui Neng is referring to meditation on a theme of any sort and to mistake any 'method' as being in itself absolute and ignoring both the totality of practice and it's context in our daily lives. He is not saying that there should be no zazen. Practice is not some special method or activity that takes place outside of daily life but is inclusive of all we do in daily life and just sitting is not concerned with any theme, even purity. There is also just walking, just eating, just seeing - practice emphasises the just part, not the sitting part alone. Hui Neng is not saying that we should never sit any more than he is saying we should never lie down or never eat. 8. "Dhyana experts in the capital," said Hsueh Chien (when interviewing the Patriarch), "unanimously advise people to meditate in the sitting position to attain Samadhi. They say that this is the only way to realize the Norm (Tao), and that it is impossible for anyone to obtain liberation without going through meditation exercises. May I know your way of teaching, Sir?" "The Norm is to be realized by the mind," replied the Patriarch, "and does not depend on the sitting position. The Diamond Sutra says that it is wrong for anyone to assert that the Tathagata comes or goes, sits or reclines. Why? Because the Tathagata's 'Dhyana of Purity' implies neither coming from anywhere nor going to anywhere, neither becoming nor causing to be. All Dharmas are calm and empty, and such is the Tathagata's 'Seat of Purity'. Strictly speaking, there is even no such thing as 'attainment'; why then should we bother ourselves about the sitting position?" Here, in quote #8, he again points to the fact how attaching and obsessing about the sitting position violates the basic principle of the Norm. Realizing the Norm does not depend on the sitting position, is plainly what the Sixth Patriarch is saying. Nope, again he is pointing to the simple and clear fact that just sitting is not done in order to attain anything. There is nothing to get, nowhere to go. Just sitting is how we realize this in our lives. 9. "Learned Audience, purify your minds and listen to me. He who wishes to attain the All-knowing Knowledge of a Buddha should know the 'Samadhi of Specific Object' and the 'Samadhi of Specific Mode'. In all circumstances we should free ourselves from attachment to objects, and our attitude towards them should be neutral and indifferent. Let neither success nor failure, neither profit nor loss, worry us. Let us be calm and serene, modest and accommodating, simple and dispassionate. Such is the 'Samadhi of Specific Object'. On all occasions, whether we are standing, walking, sitting or reclining, let us be absolutely straightforward. Then, remaining in our sanctuary, and without the least movement, we shall virtually be in the Kingdom of Pure Land. Such is the 'Samadhi of Specific Mode'. "He who is complete with these two forms of Samadhi may be likened to the ground with seeds sown therein. Covered up in the mud, the seeds receive nourishment therefrom and grow until the fruit comes into bearing. "My preaching to you now may be likened to the seasonable rain which brings moisture to a vast area of land. The Buddha-nature within you may be likened to the seed which, being moistened by the rain, will grow rapidly. He who carries out my instructions will certainly attain Bodhi. He who follows my teaching will certainly attain the superb fruit (of Buddhahood)." Finally, in quote #9, he explains the specific, correct states and attitudes. Clearly, this is the only way to attain the 'superb fruit'. Now, venerable sir, it is up to you to explain to us how is the Sixth Patriarch wrong and how is your teaching of 'just sitting' superior to his teaching of the correct state that does not attach to any form, including sitting? It is not 'my' teaching. It is the same teaching, whether spoken of by Hui Neng, the Buddha or anyone else. Just sitting is itself not attaching to any form. > And no, not > all Buddhist Sutras apart from Hui Neng's are the > recorded sayings of the Buddha. See for example - > the Mountains And Rivers Sutra by Dogen. This is arbitrary. No Japanese master had ever earned the honor to be included in the classical Buddhist cannon of sutras. Your exact words were "all other Buddhist Sutras", not "the classical Buddhist canon of Sutras". There's a big difference. And Hui Neng's Platform Sutra is not in the classical Buddhist cannon of Sutras either by the way, but it is a popular Mahayana Sutra, as is Dogen's Mountains and Rivers Sutra. > One book > that might be usefully recommended when it comes to > clarifying your understanding of Chan/Zen history > and just sitting is 'The Art of Just Sitting: > essential writings on the zen practice of > shikentanza', Edited by John Daido Loori. Thanks for the pointer. You're welcome. I'd strongly suggest that you find out at least a modicum about the history and context of just sitting before attempting to comment on works such as the Platform Sutra. Preferably under a teacher qualified to teach just sitting. Genryu [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do not own computers. 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