Well, maybe not completely nailed down. When you heard about the young girl found with the child molester, and the news that maybe he killed her brother, and three other people, did you think to yourself, "This is not good or bad, it just is" ?
--- In [email protected], "mackkup" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > good and > > bad exist just because I feel things as good and bad. > you nailed it on the head, it exits in you not on the outside but on > the inside. things are neither "good" or "bad" they just are. people > perceive events, people, situations or whatever as good or bad. for > example- in a farmers mind a rainy day is a good thing for his crops, > but someone on a pick nick will see it as a bad thing. in reality the > rain is neither good or bad it just is. Mack > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mack, > > > > Interesting viewpoint but I fundamentally disagree. Uhm... good and > > bad exist just because I feel things as good and bad. That there is > > no objective, scientific measurement or qualification does not mean > > it does not exist. To expand Descarte's "I think, therefore I > > am": "I perceive good and bad, therefore good and bad exist". > > > > Again, I think different traingings can "diminish" your feeling of > > good and bad, but again my question: why would you do that? With > > Nietzsche, I think that this subjective world, the "Ich will", "I > > want, I think that is good, I think that is bad", is a very strong > > principle of a "true human being". > > > > Some Zen masters like to speak about the Zen mind as a wooden > plank. > > I think that is a dangerous metophore because it can indeed be > > explained as throwing away all judgements... > > > > Eugene > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mackkup" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Eugene, > > > what i understand from Zen is that there is no such thing > > as "good" > > > or "bad", only in the perception of the viewer. if the viewer > goes > > > thru life and doesnt see situations or whatever as good or bad > > then i > > > think that person is living Zen. Mack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Eugene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Mack, > > > > > > > > The "i" concept is indeed the root of a lot of a lot of evil, > > but > > > > also the root of a lot of joy and happiness. It's like > dynamite; > > > can > > > > be used good and bad (if life was that simple...) > > > > > > > > The "i" concept is since birth the centre of the universe - > that > > > is: > > > > my I is the centre of my universe, your I is the centre of your > > > > universe and someone else's I the centre of his universe. The > > earth > > > > or Sun is not the centre of the universe - the "I" is. > > > > > > > > Zen (and other training) can 'modify' that. Zen training can > > lead > > > to > > > > a diminishing ego, a possibility to see life more "objective", > > not > > > > only from the viewpoint of the "i". If objectivity means truth, > > I > > > > agree with you that > > > > > if we chip away at the ego > > > > > all that will be left is truth. > > > > > > > > But: why search for something like truth and objectivity? Is > > that > > > > what you try to find with Zen? > > > > > > > > Chipping away at the ego, as you so nicely describe it, can be > > very > > > > useful and perhaps enlightning but also very dangerous - since > > it > > > is > > > > a so important concept. It has to be done carefully and with > the > > > > right objectives I think, not merely to find truth and > > objectivity. > > > > > > > > Eugene > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mackkup" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > since birth we are taught the "i" concept which i feel is the > > > root > > > > of > > > > > all evil. the ego grows and grows and doesnt allow us to see > > life > > > > the > > > > > way it should be seen. little by little if we chip away at > the > > > ego > > > > > all that will be left is truth. Mack > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well... since we were > > > > > > originally sharing on the beauty and significance of > > > > > > relaxation,expansion of our life experience,melting,letting > > > > > go...and > > > > > > how difficult it is for all of us. When i noticed how > unable > > > ive > > > > > > always been to simply let go into the way things really > > > > > > are,accidentally i came across the very obstacle that was > > > > closing > > > > > my > > > > > > way...It was an idea,an idea i haddent yet > > > understood,considered > > > > in > > > > > > the light of awareness,an idea i haddent been corageous > > enough > > > > to > > > > > > contemplate face to face. It was the idea "I".Ever since > > that > > > > > > experience this "I" idea have been melting away and instead > > a > > > > new > > > > > > understanding has started to grow,develop by itself,or > > simply > > > > has > > > > > > started to unfold by itself.The crucial tactic here is to > > > > consider > > > > > > this malconstructed "idea of I",being fully honest > > > > inside.Courage > > > > > to > > > > > > see inner reality is a rewarding asset. Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi Yahoo! 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