Dear Ronnie, Your mail is informative and useful. I find it very constructive. I had read Eliot's opinions regarding Objectivity, and his approach to tradition in poetry; but I did not know what exactly this particular term "objective co-relative" signify.Thanks a lot!
Farah. --- In [email protected], ronnie banerjee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Jane - thou shalt not find objective correlative in Sacred Wood essays (though you certainly must read it cause it is among Eliot's early essays relating to criticism and possibility of poetic drama). Thanks to you I read up the Sacred Wood yet again. Then I read up a whole volume of recent crticism of Eliot's works. I then started reading up Eliot's biography. God! Jane I am terrified of you. Never have i researched thus unless it was for a fire breathing client who wanted me to win his case or else lose my life! > But when I found it, it was somewhere in an anthology by some ____Gallanter. I wanted to carry the book to office in order to reproduce it but lo behold - i forgot to carry it. > This is not a personal mail. no sir. I owe it to the group to explain this crypt of "objective correlative". > Objective correlative is certainly Eliot's creation. According to Eliot poetry was not about expression of personality but an escape therefrom. Therefore in poetry he wished to reproduce that sequence of sensory experience, or express that scene or collection of objects which when so expressed would immediately regenerate those feelings associated with the specific experience. Example- > imagine u want to express the dreariness of a city in winters u could say > > ah! my heart breaks > when i see > the cold cold winter > freeze the toes > of lonely men > in an overcrowded city.. > > Now I have written this one right now. But this poem (if u can call it so) has no imagery, no collection of facts that can regenerate the emotions which a dreary winter can evoke. And now take Eliot's Preludes- > > The winter evening settles down > with smells of steaks in passageways (objective correlative) > six o'clock > the burnt out ends of smoky days > and now a gusty shower wraps > the grimy scraps > of withered leaves about ur feet(pl. note the clarity of the description of the sensory experience) > the showers beat > on broken blinds and chimney pots (lovely!) > > and so on and so forth. > > not once has Eliot talked about his feelings directly and condemned the city. He has let the imagery and concrete representation of objects and scenes evoke those feelings in the reader. I guess that's what objective correlative is about.. > Hope this clarifies. > Ron > > Thanks, Farah, > > It just shows you the gaps in my reading. I really didn't know this. > > Objective or subjective...it rather seems to depend what you are writing about. Good poetry can be either. I think you will find that most women's poetry is subjective and men's is objective...though in these days of metrosexuality the distinctions may be blurred. Curiously, one only hears this term applied to men: can women be metrosexual, or is this still a male bastion? > > And no, Ronnie, I didn't damn the term, I simply asked what it was, not having come across it before. I hadn't read the Sacred Wood essays, you see. Not really required reading for a painter. But now I will...thank you for prodding me. Or should I say goading? > > jane > > Farah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello, > > My internet had not been working so i was a bit out of touch...About > this "objective co-relative"...I have read Eliot's Sacred Wood > essays, and in them he has debated whether good poetry stems from > being objective or subjective...his opinion is that objectivity is > preferable since it gives a more universal elemant to poetry...but > that is not a strict criterion.Plath wrote intensely personal > poetry, and it is very good. I think Ronnie meant that subjective or > personal poetry is more vague, so consequently, more difficult to > grasp...whereas objective poems like Eliots "Love song of > J.Prufrock" (one of my favorites) etc have wider > interpretations...Am I right Ronnie?...please let me know if i got > this wrong. > Personally I prefer more objective poems. > > Farah > > > --- In [email protected], jane bhandari wrote: > > > > If you know, tell me. Obviously it's something I should know, but > don't. > > > > > > ronnie banerjee wrote: > > correlative or corelative?? First - what is the spelling? Perhaps > it is a sister-in-law. Perhaps u may read Eliot's Sacred Wood essays > to understand it before u start damning the term . Perhaps u can > stick to ur own ideas even as others stick to theirs. Beyond a point > i dont think any of us care - Jane, mon cher > > Ron > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with voicemail > > -- > You are encouraged to post poetry, respond critically to the poems circulated and participate in discussions. To post, email your message to [email protected] OR post online at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZESTPoets/post/ > > Tell friends to subscribe to ZESTPoets by sending a blank email to [EMAIL PROTECTED], OR, if they have a Yahoo! 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