Well, I can see this very well.


At 04:21 PM 12/16/2002 -0700, you wrote:

I find that to understand an apostate doctrine, at least in my limited
manner, it is almost always possible to take the doctrine and see the truth
from which it sprang (is sprang a word?).  There are, I suspect, very few
original doctrines in other religions, just variations and corruptions of
the true doctrine.  If only we could go back to the origins of each belief.

Plato, et al, had to have some basis for their beliefs and I would suspect
those beliefs could, if we had the right sources and tools, be traced back
to original truth.  The same would be true for any systems of beliefs.

The trap, as you suggest, is that people interpret this phenomena as
"developing concepts of God" and other claptrap like that. Adam had a
complete understanding of the doctrine as did Abraham, Melchizedek, et al.
In fact, it is the deterioration of the truth that we view as the changes in
the way people interpret God and the doctrine as a whole.  It is all going
downhill except as we see restorations and the input from Prophets.  It is a
point not very many people see.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Marc A. Schindler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: [ZION] "heck" ain't cussin

The problem is there's a trap for the innocent here. I know what you mean,
would agree with it. The problem is that Platonists would ascribe an
existence to a characteristic. Kind of like turning an adjective into a
noun. So
"God" became an abstract and separate existence "an und für sich" (in and of
itself, existentially speaking), which laid the ground for later apostate
such as the God without body, parts or passions.

George Cobabe wrote:

> Marc - would it be true to say that we LDS believe in a universal
> of Godhood, and what is entailed in that high station, and see infinite
> manifestations of that universal concept?  What is "God" is a universal
> constant that many, many are exalted to conform with?
> If this is true - then does the false notion of trinitarianism have a
> in truth, but then it is corrupted in its application?

There is another notion found amongst some of the earliest, Greek-speaking
Fathers (Augustine readily admitted his ignorance of NT Greek, and the
"latinization" influence he had on early Church doctrine was key in the
imo), called "theosis," a version of which is still found in the Orthodox
today. The Roman Church has lost even the modern eastern notion, which is
called "apotheosis" (I think -- I'm going to have to look that up if anyone
me on it). But first "theosis" -- that simply means becoming God. It's the
concept of exaltation and people like Eusebius used it. However, so did
Arius, who
was on the losing side of a debate about the nature of the trinity at Nicaea
the early 4th century, so the baby got thrown out with the bathwater. But
eastern church kept a version of the "Arian heresy" which meant to get
into God's presence and sharing in his glory.

So "godhood" exists, and one could say theosis (or in Mormonese, exaltation)
the process of attaining that status, but we wouldn't assign an "an und für
or "universal" existence to it. That turns it into a "thing" which we would
reject. This is a very fine distinction, and I'm not sure I'm explaining it
well. It's easy to get bogged down in philosophical niceties here.

> George

Marc A. Schindler
Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland

"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will
himself up and continue on" - Winston Churchill

Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the
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