George Cobabe favored us with:
John, I am willing to answer, and defend, but first answer the question that
we have been discussing.  Are we in "general" agreement as to what
constitutes a Moral War?

If so then we can apply the test and come up with a satisfactory conclusion.
If not, then why bother? as discussion will not be possible!
I think we are in general agreement about what constitutes a moral war, but I'm not certain. We seem to read Alma 48 differently. Both you and Gary seem to see both Captain Moroni and George W. Bush as the guys with the white hats, and Saddam Hussein and Iraq as the guys with the black hats. For me, I don't see how the USA can be the white hats as long as it has legalized pornography, gambling, adultery, sodomy, abortion, alcohol use, and the socialistic redistribution of the wealth. I don't think that the USA is any more righteous than it was when the Joseph and Hyrum were lynched, the saints were driven out of the country or the Savior's church was forced by the federal government to change our religion to comply with the hypocritical morals of the Protestant majority. If anything, it is more wicked today than it was during the 19th century. I see all this pompous talk about freedom and the American way as hypocrisy. I believe that the USA has a highly immoral foreign policy projecting its military presence all over the world and trying to force its values on other nations. To me it obvious that we do not have our acts together nearly well enough to dictate to others.

But perhaps the biggest reason that I am not certain we have a "general" agreement as to what constitutes a moral war, is the fact that you have not been as succinct in expressing your opinion on the matter as I have. I have said:

Fundamental principle: Self-defense is OK. Everything else is unlawful.

1) We defend ourselves even if it means shedding blood.
2) We never give offense.
3) We never fight except to preserve our lives.
4) We only fight when God commands us to fight.

In my opinion the current situation fails the definition of a moral war on all four counts. Let Saddam Hussein strike us here at home and then invade Iraq. If we stop meddling in his part of the world, perhaps he will not strike us here at home. In all probability he won't.

"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power
corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost
always bad men." --Lord Acton, 1887
All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR

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