Stephan Richter wrote:
> On Friday 10 April 2009, Martijn Faassen wrote:
>> With Zope 3 I mean:
>> * the thing with the ZMI - do you care about the ZMI?
> I think boxing in Zope 3 being the ZMI app is not useful. I have not used the 
> ZMI since 2 years now and I am still considering myself writing Zope 3 apps.

The reason for the unpacking of terminology I did here was exactly to 
unbox the ZMI. If the ZMI isn't relevant to Zope 3 we should say so, and 
act on it, not keep it on indefinitely. But it's what people see now 
when they first install Zope 3, and it's an awful large part of the code 
they see too.

In our package refactoring we've been quite careful to try to keep the 
ZMI code working, leaving it behind in zope.app.* packages and such. If 
*nobody* is interested in maintaining this we could draw interesting 
conclusions about how to go forward with this stuff...

>> * the thing that can be installed as a particular development platform -
>> do you care about the installation story for Zope 3? (as opposed to Grok
>> or your own application's?)
> The installation story today is: Roll your own configuration of ZCML.

And buildout, and so on. That's not really a story that people can find 
out about easily, can they?

>> * the thing that has some kind of documentation website - do you care
>> about providing documentation for Zope 3 as opposed to documentation for
>> Grok or individual libraries?
> I am not interested about that.

Okay, so no "getting started" documentation for you.

> Again, I think Zope 3, the set of packages, which is a superset of the 
> Toolkit 
> KGS is very important to maintain. I think even for Grok people, since the 
> exposed z3c libraries are widely useful.

So we have different concepts surrounding Zope 3: important

* something that presents itself to beginners in documentation and with 
an installation story. Something like what Grok does.

* a set of packages (KGS) that is wider than the Zope Toolkit KGS.

* the stuff that keeps your existing Zope 3 applications working.

> I have no problem keeping the Zope 3 KGS releases alive. Sooner or later we 
> should stop the large TAR ball releases though.

Oh, yeah, in my opinion the tarball releases should be stopped today. I 
mean, we've released Zope 3.4, no more tall ball releases after this, 



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