Hanno Schlichting wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:54 PM, Martijn Faassen <faas...@startifact.com> 
> wrote:
>> And let's please not turn this around: I'm not putting anything *in*.
>> Something was *removed*. Let's remove it responsibly. Not just disclaim
>> responsibility and drop it all.
> So far I defined the ZTK based on what we wrote on
> http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/about/coreextra.html.
> I never considered those zope.app packages to be part of the ZTK. For
> me that was only a technical implementation detail on how to actually
> get to something that fullfils those criteria about core packages.

That document should've helped clue you in about this too:

"The Zope Toolkit Steering Group is the final arbiter of which libraries 
are in Zope Toolkit or not."

The idea was not to have unilateral decisions about this but to have 
some discussion first. I think dropping lots of libraries counts as 
something we need to talk about before it happens.

Again, I'm fine with the *goal* of making the ZTK those packages, but we 
can't just leave the rest behind.

> But it seems our understanding is different and you want the
> responsibility of moving Zope 3 users over to the ZTK to be the
> responsibility of the ZTK. I don't agree with that, but that's my
> problem :)

The ZTK cannot be an excuse to just drop support for a large part of the 
existing users of the ZTK. It's a *means* to do so.

> To be able to make more actual progress I moved Zope2 off the toolkit
> for now and we'll continue on our own. If at some point the ZTK offers
> a package set, that is actually anywhere close to what Zope2 uses, we
> can consider using it again. From my Zope2/Plone perspective I'm just
> not interested at all in any zope.app code anymore.

The irony is that almost nobody is, including myself.

But the situation is also that you as Zope 2 developers have a plan to 
support users that do still depend on zope.app code. Why don't you throw 
that plan into the wider group of people here? We have a shared problem 
of backwards compatibility, right? Perhaps less for Zope 2 than for 
other Zope Toolkit using systems, as you never used the UI or the 
content types.



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