Hi Joel,

I agree exactly.

Basically I am just trying to work out how to do it without stepping on any toes and fit in with whatever plans there are. But so far I haven't found out anything. So if anyone can help in that area (even if to say there isn't anything) that would be really helpful.


Joel Moxley wrote:

Pete and all,

Like you, I'm fairly new to the Zope3 marketing and website issues --
and relatively new to Zope/Zope3 as well.  I was actually unaware of
the zope-web list until that "Guido" thread.

In any event, I agree with you -- the initial and central need is an
intelligent, clear organization of existing content in a single place.

I've followed the discussion on both lists, and my questions are these:

I've seen the zope-web svn text (which is a great start).  What's the
plan forward, and when does the zope-web community expect to have
working model?  Is there a timeline?  Where can a non-expert
individual like myself make a contribution?

I feel as though initially the mere existence of a central Zope3
brochure-type "jumping off" website would be hugely valuable even if
not completely perfected.  I'm unclear on whether this is too specific
for zope-web's larger purpose.  If it is something zope-web wants to
do, is it something that we would expect in a few months or perhaps

Anyways, I'm excited that so many of us share the enthusiasm for
marketing Zope and Zope3.


On 2/16/06, Peter Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Re-reading my email I kinda put the emphasis in the wrong area. If we
need more design then I would like to get it right of couse the existing
isn't too bad so maybe we don't need it so much just a little bit for
differiantion purposes.

The main thing is the content. I would be keen to do some
demos/simulations as well as getting together the existing howtos and
making sure they are up to date.

The 4 items sum it up and the content behind those is the main thing.


Peter Simmons wrote:

Hi Andrew,

Cheers. That does sound like a good idea I have been wondering about
creating more content for our site and might do that also :-) Thanks
to Christian T also for the idea in the first place.

Do you help keep zope.org up to date? (forgive my ignorance in this area)

I am really keen to spend the money on some nice design (for logo,
colors, brand guidelines) and marketing efforts for Zope 3. I truly do
believe that with a little effort we can make the entry point much
better. I know from experience that have the plone.org site (the front
page and demos are the main contribution really) it helps people
understand what they are getting into when they start using plone. I
think we could do the same for Zope 3.

The items

1) What is Zope 3?
2) Why use Zope 3?
3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
4) How do I get started?

Cover it I think. I am pretty keen to keep the aim/goal fairly simple
to begin with to ensure we get something up and running. Then I
believe we need to keep reinvesting to keep current with what is going
on just on these basic items. We should really only expand if these
are completely up to date and we have spare resource.


Andrew Sawyers wrote:

That's excellent Peter!  I don't want any money, but would be cool to
find the best use for it....
Talking to Christian T from the German Zope Users Group the other day,
he pointed out something interesting they were doing with available
funds:  hiring 2 'writers' who would watch the Zope and python lists and
bi-weekly (2 - ea. offsetting one another) write an in-depth article for
their site.
I think that would be interesting possibility to do with offered funds
and maybe could be further used by the foundation when that gets
Anyhow, really just wanted to say 'thanks'.

Andrew Sawyers

On Fri, 2006-02-17 at 09:58 +1300, Peter Simmons wrote:

Hi All,

I just subscribed to both these lists (forgive the cross post) so
you may have gotten further down the road on this one than I have
seen. I have been following a conversation on Zope3-users list about
setting up a website and doing a little marketing push for Zope 3.

I really liked the ideas in the email from Joel Moxley
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) as pasted at the end in particular as I think
they sum up where the discussion got to. Anyway I wanted to offer
some funding to help get a site like that going I could offer $1000
NZD (about $700 USD at present) from my company to kick this thing off.

I am not sure where to go next though, Gary Poster suggested I get
over to the zope-web list and that the foundation would also be able
to help with this when it gets up and running.

I noticed recently that the Plone foundation had started using a
site http://fundable.org to help people organise funding for
projects similar to this. Have a look at the site it seems like a
good place to do this kinda thing.

Anyone got a place to point me or ideas about how to get the funding
into place and get this thing going?


As I see it, Zope 3's central marketing issue is the lack of a
coherent online identity.  There needs to be a single place that
answers the following questions:

1) What is Zope 3?
2) Why use Zope 3?
3) How does Zope 3 compare to competing frameworks?
4) How do I get started?

Largely, this is assembly of the Zope 3 FrontPage, philikon's first
two chapters, and the "appetizer" quick start guides on
worldcookery. However, I would also  love to see a section on the
lead developers
answering Q1-Q3.  And this would be in conjunction with conveying...

Zope3's shtick:  Zope3 is not flashy.  Zope3 does not put pastel
colors on its website. Zope3 is the no-nonsense, industrial strength
platform.  It's where you come when you want to do it right.  It was
coded with the most rigorous standards by a bunch of hard-nosed sons
of bitches who don't have time for froofy marketing  :) .  And so
This would come across in lead dev's answering Q1-Q3.

And finally, the site should demonstrate the "industrial strength"
quality with examples.  Little snippets from developers of SchoolTool,
corporate users, and so forth should demonstrate "hey, we're for real,
and we don't mess around -- you give me an animated screenshots, I
raise you a XYZ transaction per day uber site".  In a sense, we'd want
to portray ourselves as the Chuck Norris[1] of web platforms  :)
Bottom line, a coherent online identity would go a long way.  Instead
of doing some snazzy marketings, let's communicate the character that
Zope3 does have.  It sounds like zope3.org under ZF might be the ideal
way to do this,

As for codenames, this is just one way we could help create a coherent
online identity.  I certainly think release names would be fun (and
not distracting to the central "Zope 3" brand we'd want).  Overall, I
think the time has come for communication of Zope 3 identity to move
hand in hand with development.


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