Thanks, Jim, for your responses! These thoughts from you deserve a larger readership than this thread provides. I think I will restart thinking on this from scratch. Thanks, again.
-Milind On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 8:12 PM, Jim Fulton <j...@zope.com> wrote: > On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Milind Khadilkar <zedobj...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Thanks, Thierry. > > I think the real problem with ZCA and ZCML is "bad press". We did not > face > > any ZCML problem when we worked on the Zope3 projects. It was later, > > thankfully, that we came across the negative opinion. ZCA did require a > > mindset change for some, but more often than not it has helped them in > their > > future work on other platforms too. > > But that was 10 years ago... Don't know about now. > > I'm proud of the ZCA in many ways, but: > > - ZCA was designed for problems that most people don't or shouldn't have, > which is making a complex application pluggable. > > If your application is complex, that's a problem > > http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/ > > - In the Zope 3 project, we used the CA way more than we should > have. Initially, this was to prove that we could. Once we were > convinced that every (damn) thing could be pluggable we should > have stopped and simplified, using the ZCA only where needed. > Instead, we'd established a culture of crazy levels of indirection. > > - Outrageous indirection in the base system made starting new projects > either super difficult, an exercise in cargo-cult-programming, or both. > > I've come to the conclusion that any framework that requires or > encourages its users to use project-templates or project-setup > wizards isn't something I want to use. > > I stopped using Zope 3 several years ago when I realized that the > weight of the framework wasn't justified by it's benefits, at least for > me. > > I've decided that I'd rather use decoupled frameworks that, ideally, > are simple to learn and use individually. That's why I use bobo now, > http://bobo.digicool.com. A more conventional choice along the same > lines would be Flask, although I think bobo is simpler. (Of course, I'm > biased. :) > > I still use the ZCA, especially zope.event, but in a wildly lighter-weight > fashion than I did in Zope 3. > > Part of the reason I prefer simpler server frameworks today is that > Web applications are far more client centered today than they were > when I worked on Zope 2 and even Zope 3. Today, for applications > (as opposed to content *sites*), UI logic, including templating, mostly > happens on the client, and web servers are largely REST/RPC/Database > servers. > > Jim > > P.S. If you find the ZCA interesting, you should check out Scala and it's > implicits and type-level programming. It does many of the same > things as the ZCA at compile time. It's crazy beautiful and evil all > at the same time. :) > > -- > Jim Fulton > http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton >
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