Ron Bickers wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Nov 2000, Chris Withers wrote:
> > To Hamish, the other Chris, and anyone else who's going to jump in on
> > this.
> >
> > To be quite blunt, this has now been _decided_ as I understand it. So
> > it's pointless to keep arguing and suggesting new and different names.
> > We now _have_ a president and it's name is 'Python Script' ;-)
> With all due respect to everyone, this should not be considered a closed
> issue.

It is.  This is the kind of thing where it is impossible to make 100% of
the participants happy, we regret that not everyone is going to go for
it, but we *must* move forward.  This issue is holding up Python
Scripts, which is holding up the book, which is intimately tied to Zope
2.3, all of which is intimiately tied to my paycheck.  My paycheck
doesn't really have anything to do with it but I just thought I'd
mention it. ;)

>  My understanding is that there would be a vote for a name.

We could not afford any further delay, and the last poll was a
disaster.  The author of Python Scripts (the majority of which were
written before he worked at DC) rightly asserted his position and picked
a name.  I'm sure it wasn't easy for him, and there was lots of internal
conflict; many in the company not liking 'Script' for many of the same
reasons you do.

> Skipping that in the name of getting things moving after it was offered by
> Digital Creations seems to go against the open source nature of the
> product. 

That is tying a strong semantic relation between "open source" and
"democratic".  In my mind, the open source nature is that anyone can
examine, author and contribute code to a project for peer review and
inclusion.  Evan did just that, he wrote most of what used to be called
Python Methods before he worked at DC and contributed it freely under
the open source mantra.  I don't think voting has much to do with open
source, it has worked for us (with the documentation poll) and failed
for us (with what used to be called Python Methods) but we'll probably
try it again.

> Not to mention that the name chosen does nothing to distinguish
> it from an everyday Python "script" outside of Zope, which is what sparked
> the name change to begin with.  "It's not really a Python method, so let's
> change the name."  Well, it's not just a "Python Script" either.  It's
> Zopified.

Just to clarify, in the Python language, there is no such thing as a
"script".  What you are thinking of as a "script" is really some hunk of
data (probably a file) containing python code that contains either some
platform specific hook to invoke the interpreter, or that you pass to
the interpreter on the platform specific "command line".  Neither of
these things have anything to do with the language called Python.  Once
inside the interpreter, you are officially working with "modules". 
"Modules" and "methods" are real, defined, un-ambiguous Python objects
defined in the Language Reference
(  Obviously, naming a
Zope object "module" or "method" would be a bad idea, and therein lies
the problem.  

"Script" is just un-bound, non-python specific, vague lingo that
everybody uses to describe a chunk of code in just about any language,
on any platform.  In this case, the platform is Zope, the chunk of code
is written in Python, and the "command line" is your web browser.

I can sympathize with your feelings, but one of the reasons I don't like
"Method" is because it's is OO specific; it is a very technical term. 
"ZMethod" is no better, even if it doesn't have the problem of clashing
names with a python object (and barely not clashing at that!).  We want
to make using Zope easier.  For the target audience we want to approach,
if 1000 people pull down the add list and see "Python ZMethod" many more
of them are going to scratch their heads about what the hell a ZMethod
is than if they see "Python Script".  "Oh, a python script?  Cool!  I've
written some CGI scripts!  Now I can go and read chapter six of the book
'Scripting Zope' and find out how to 'script the web'!"


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