+-------[ Hafeliel ]----------------------
| I realize that this post might cause a bit of anxiety,
| and so I apologize for that in advance. However,
| despite all the blood, sweat, and tears that we've all
| poured into Zope over the years, Zope has yet to make
| a signifigant market penetration.
| If you could, please take a moment to surf on over to
| As you probably guessed, that's a wiki set up to
| discuss where we went right, where we went wrong, and
| what we could do to make a product that industry is
| more apt to embrace.
| What do you guys honestly think? Is this a good idea?
I'm having a hard time working out what your problem is.
"If anything, the Zope developers have given us too much. In an attempt to
protect us from ourselves, they have severly limited what we can do."
That's not something I've ever heard of being an issue before. The fact is you
can subclass just about anything in Zope, and publish just about any other
type of object.
Perhaps if we knew what you were limited by, the discussion would go a lot
Some of your discussions shows a distinct lack of knowledge of how Zope works,
so your problem seems to be, you don't understand Zope, so you want to replace
it with something that does the same thing, just in a way you understand it.
Yet other parts of your discussion show a frightening lack of knowledge of web
development environments in general.
The fact of the matter is, PHP and friends have greater market penetration,
because "people" want to do things the 'easy' way. That is mixing presentation
and logic all in some horrid markup. Engineers appreciate the way it separates
these things, and makes it hard(er) to have ugly templates. PHP "programmers"
are a dime a dozen for a reason, "anyone" can do it.
Zope is a different beast, if you don't have good engineering habits, you're
not going to get very far using Zope.
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