Very nice words....

I have near complette mirror of the old.zope.org from 2004 or 2005 if someone wants (and rememner that old site and good where are many products that you couldnot find at web now). There are many fantastic products which I use at near each site. So I will try to put it online.


----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Von Lahndorff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Zope2 + DTML + Python and you're good to go. I know a bunch of
developers/designers, including myself that use this combo all the
time. I currently use it for projects at a Fortune 500 company. The
docs suck but once you get in the groove you can bang out solid,
stable, good looking, standard compliant sites unbelievably fast.
Acquisition can be your best friend and you reuse a lot of your coding
for multiple projects. There are still developers on this list who use
DTML over ZPT, they just dont post much to it because of the ZPT
backlash you get when you do. I've gotten private messages off this
list from people though about DTML so there is support out there. Its
true that most of the products for Zope 2 have been updated in a while
but I can tell you that most will work fine with the latest Zope 2
release and are very customizable. The Zope2 ecosystem is pretty
mature and stable just poorly documented or supported. I do think
you'll probably get the "Zope Zen" quicker than you think and be able
to figure out a lot on your own.

On Nov 26, 2007, at 8:18 PM, Rene B wrote:

I'm frustrated trying to select a python web framework. I’ve researched quite a
few. CherryPy,Karrigell,Zope 2,3,Grok, Gluon,Django,Mod_Python. I’ve  also
looked at templating languages like Spyce, and Cheetah.
I’m beginning to think there’s nothing  out there  for a newbie python
programmer like myself.  I’m a Network Admin  that likes programming  but
doesn’t have the time to get really proficient at it.
I selected Python as a language of choice and that’s all I’ve used.   I’ve
written a  few scripts .
I’m interested in building dynamic web sites but I tell you it’s impossible to
select a tool.
I’ve researched all the tools mentioned above. The most important thing in my decision is that I know some Python and want to use it to build the dynamic site. I don’t want to learn a new language to do that. ZPT is a new language. Its not python. Not even close. Out of all the ones I’ve researched I like
Zope 2 the best.  Not sure why. I want some thing easy.  I like  DTML. It’s
easy. I know why ZPT has it’s advantages but for ease of use it doesn’t come close to DTML. Most people like me wont be building complex web sites and I’d be the only working on it meaning I’ll do the HTML layout and code the dynamic
portions of it. So I don’t’ need to worry about  an HTML editor  getting
confused with the dynamic languages  mixed in blah blah  blah.

I’m afraid to learn Zope 2 because I have no idea what direction it’s going in.
Not to mention I don’t particularly like ZPT. I’ve read DTML isn’t  going
anywhere but I don’t imagine I’ll get much support on it when needed and I’m
sure people will be telling me to use ZPT cause DTML is dead.
Funny, I read something while reading news about Grok’s new plugins for any template language . They used Genshi as an example and talked about template languages and which one is better etc.. The bottom line was "use the one that you like". So I wish people would stop putting down DTML or others over the one they prefer and continue to help those regardless of which they choose. Back to trying to choose. I think Django is too hard. I like Mod_python with PSP. PSP seems to be more python like then anything I’ve seen. Yet Mod_Python
has terrible docs for people like me and it doesn't seem to popular.
The other frameworks have some good ideas. I like Karrigell but you just don’t know how long it will be supported.Gluon is cool but its new. Zope 3 is out of the question. Grok looks to me like another CherryPy. It may be easier the Zope 3 but it’s not easier then Zope 2. Plus I’ve yet to get it installed on my
windows XP to play.
I like cheetah as a tool. There docs are not that great and not many examples. Plus no auto generated content like you get in Zope 2. Yes some magic is good. The CRUD is what made Rails over rated to start out with.People like some
magic. saves time.  Combining Cheetah and Zope sounds interesting to  me.
So what do I do. I like Zope 2. I can’t find any books on it released after
2002. Plone is tooo much.
There aren’t any new products out for Zope 2 and the ones that are  there
haven’t been touched for years.
Zope 2 wiki seems dead. I was looking the other day for some type of auto CRUD for Zope 2. couldn’t find anyting. No one seems to be adding anything new
to Zope 2 which scares me the most.
If I take the time to learn a tool I want to make sure it’s going to be around for awhile and have good support and new addons being added all of the time to
help me.

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