Ben Goertzel wrote:
Colin wrote:
The only working, known model of general intelligence is the
human. If we base AGI on anything that fails to account
scientifically and completely for /all/ aspects of human
cognition, including consciousness, then we open ourselves to
critical inferiority... and the rest of science will simply find
the group an irrelevant cultish backwater. Strategically the group
would do well to make choices that attract the attention of the
'machine consciousness' crowd - they are directly linked to
neuroscience via cog sci.
Actually, I very strongly disagree with the above.
While I am an advocate of machine consciousness research, and will be
co-organizing a machine consciousness workshop in Hong Kong in June
2009, I do **not** agree that focusing on machine consciousness would
be likely to help AGI to get better accepted in the general scientific
community.
Rather, I think that consciousness research is currently considered at
least as eccentric as AGI research, by the scientific mainstream ...
and is considered far MORE eccentric than AGI research by the AI
research mainstream, e.g. the AAAI.
So, discussing issues of machine consciousness may be interesting and
very worthwhile for AGI in some scientific and conceptual... but I
really really don't think that, at the present time, more closely
allying AGI with machine consciousness would do anything but cause
trouble for AGI's overall scientific reputation.
Frankly I think that "machine consciousness" has at least as high a
chance of being considered an "irrelevant cultish backwater" than AGI
... though I don't think that either field deserves that fate.
Comparing the two fields, I note that AGI has a larger and more active
series of conferences than machine consciousness, and is also ...
pathetic as it may be ... better-funded overall ;-p ....
Regarding the connection to neuroscience and cog sci: obviously, AGI
does not need machine consciousness as an intermediary to connect to
those fields, it is already closely connected. As one among many
examples, Stan Franklin's LIDA architecture, a leading AGI approach,
was originated in collaboration with Bernard Baars, a leading
cognitive psychologist (and consciousness theorist, as it happens).
And we had a session on AGI and Neuroscience at AGI-08, chaired by
neuroscientist Randal Koene.
I laid out my own thoughts on consciousness in some detail in The
Hidden Pattern ... I'm not trying to diss consciousness research at
all ... just pointing out that the posited reason for tying it in with
AGI seems not to be correct...
-- Ben G
My main impression of the AGI-08 forum was one of over-dominance by
singularity-obsessed and COMP thinking, which must have freaked me out
a bit. The IEEE Spectrum articles on the 'singularity rapture' did
nought to improve my outlook... Thanks for bringing the Stan Franklin
and Bernhard Baars/Global Workspace etc and neuroscience links to my
attention. I am quite familiar with them and it's a relief to see they
connect with the AGI fray. Hopefully the penetration of these
disciplines, and their science, will grow.
In respect of our general consciousness-in-AGI disagreement: Excellent!
That disagreement is a sign of diversity of views. Bring it on!
The only reason for not connecting consciousness with AGI is a situation
where one can see no mechanism or role for it. That inability is no
proof there is none....and I have both to the point of having a patent
in progress. Yes, I know it's only my claim at the moment...but it's
behind why I believe the links to machine consciousness are not
optional, despite the cultural state/history of the field at the moment
being less than perfect and folks cautiously sidling around
consciousness like it was bomb under their budgets.
So...You can count on me for vigorous defense of my position from
quantum physics upwards to psychology, including support for machine
consciousness as being on the critical path to AGI. Hopefully in June
'09? ;-)
I tried to locate a local copy of 'the hidden pattern'...no luck. Being
in poverty-stricken student mode, at the moment...I have to survive on
library/online resources, which are pretty impressive here at
Unimelb......but despite this the libraries around here don't have
it...two other titles in the state library... but not that one..Oh well.
Maybe send me a copy with my wizard hat? :-P
cheers,
colin hales
-------------------------------------------
agi
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