Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries).
I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove nitrosamines from diet. Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating how people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare the amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ's, compared with that which might come from DPA treated apples. 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to begin with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had DPA not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with 1-MCP use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding the treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as use of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue). We have not got as far as Mosbah's idea of calling pesticides plant medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time someone asks the question. Finally, regarding Jean-Marc's observation of reduced aroma, we have been able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar & clones, Pinova and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so marked, so later harvest is not the solution. I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy from Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Willett Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in technical DPA. In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, by Ireland's Pesticide Registration & Control Division as the rapporteur member state (RMS), it came to this conclusion: "N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in processed apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also consider that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing market, it is only applied to freshly consumed table apples, as appearance of these apples is very important. Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine." In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to address home processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh consumption, no nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple juice; only in blended and chopped apples ("processed" apples). The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the reason the MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data gaps in the registration package that had been submitted. The EU DPA Task Force has vigorously protested the allegation of data gaps but, at any rate, the reduction in the MRL in the EU was not based on a definitive assessment of risk. While I am not an expert in this area, given the discussion regarding 1-MCP, while it is very effective at preventing scald, work done by Jim Mattheis at USDA/ARS-Wenatchee and Chris Watkins at Cornell, notes that in certain situations use of 1-MCP can increase certain fruit disorders, some related to CO2 injury. Many packers in the U.S. Pacific Northwest, now use lower rates of DPA in combination with 1-MCP to maximize its benefits. Mike Willett Northwest Horticultural Council www.nwhort.org<http://www.nwhort.org> will...@nwhort.org<mailto:will...@nwhort.org> 509.969.0245 mobile This message is from a remote location, sometimes truly remote. ________________________________ From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of David A. Rosenberger [da...@cornell.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:46 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello, Con - Since grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some nitrosamines, I'm assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? :) **************************************************************** Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Office: 845-691-7231 Cell: 845-594-3060 http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/ **************************************************************** On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was "cleaned-up", but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con ________________________________ From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net>] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu<mailto:kus...@illinois.edu>] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80's because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human. Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, "Con.Traas" <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the "dirty dozen", or one covered in pesticide from among the "clean fifteen". Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, the motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to produce its food. However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that is not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods that consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have more confidence in. So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe public either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer someplace near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce. Con Traas European (Irish) Apple Grower T: @theapplefarmer From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was send to him from one of his co-workers. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.com<http://www.milburnorchards.com/> Hey Evan what's this all about? _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
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