I meant to type MRL, not MLR. Mark
On 5/2/14, Mark & Helen Angermayer <angermay...@gmail.com> wrote: > Bill, > > MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. > > Mark Angermayer > Tubby Fruits > > On 5/2/14, Fleming, William <w...@exchange.montana.edu> wrote: >> Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA >> that >> regulated residues on food. >> >> Bill Fleming >> Montana State University >> Western Ag Research Center >> 580 Quast Lane >> Corvallis, MT 59828 >> >> From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net >> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, >> Richard A >> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM >> To: Apple-crop discussion list >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> >> Amazing. >> >> First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US >> EPA >> in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at >> least >> attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific >> evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to >> one >> direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition >> to >> the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but >> that's >> why we all should communicate. >> >> But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer >> compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any >> substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of >> arrogant >> talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from >> BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC >> fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted ... >> those >> who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or >> organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. >> >> I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their >> opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. >> >> Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a >> retired >> old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. >> >> Rick Weinzierl >> >> Richard Weinzierl >> Professor and Extension Entomologist >> IL SARE PDP Coordinator >> Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois >> S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue >> Urbana, IL 61801 >> 217-244-2126 >> >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen >> Jansky >> Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM >> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> >> The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP.... Not good >> press >> for the U.S. Industry.... >> >> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo >> >> Steve >> ________________________________ >> From: con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie> >> To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >> Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 +0000 >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> Hello Mike and all, >> >> The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU >> countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, >> having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of >> the >> fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be >> positively >> disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from >> our >> own apple growers association, and from some other countries). >> >> I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the >> supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, >> as >> you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, >> but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to remove >> nitrosamines from diet. >> >> Dave is correct to point out that there are uncontrollable sources of >> nitrosamines in diet, but thank goodness they have not begun regulating >> how >> people cook their foods at home yet. It would be interesting to compare >> the >> amount of nitrosamine in a typical diet due to BBQ's, compared with that >> which might come from DPA treated apples. >> >> 1-MCP is not a replacement for DPA, and a few years ago I had done some >> small-scale trials on using about 10% rates of DPA both without and in >> combination with 1-MCP, and found scald control to be very good in both >> cases, indicating that recommended DPA rates were probably too high to >> begin >> with. I think such combinations would have been the ideal solution, had >> DPA >> not been removed from the market, as CO2 injury is a serious risk with >> 1-MCP >> use, which is why we now must use higher-tech storage systems. Regarding >> the >> treatments with DPA at 10% of the recommended rate, residues were still >> detectable at about 0.1 to 0.05 ppm after 6 months of storage (unwashed >> apples). Even if we could guarantee the lower figure, because DPA has now >> been withdrawn, any residue found in a random test would be an issue, as >> use >> of an unapproved chemical is illegal (even if it leaves no residue). >> >> We have not got as far as Mosbah's idea of calling pesticides plant >> medicines, though the industry does use the phrase plant protectant >> products, even though the public still call them pesticides. It will take >> quite some time to change that, but the opportunity arises each time >> someone >> asks the question. >> >> Finally, regarding Jean-Marc's observation of reduced aroma, we have been >> able to offset this in some varieties (for example Elstar & clones, >> Pinova >> and Wellant) by a delayed harvest, which is in itself facilitated by the >> excellent ability of 1-MCP to stop these particular varieties ripening >> further. In this case we end up with firmer fresher-tasting apples which >> also have great aroma characteristics. For other varieties (e.g. Jonagold >> and clones), once ripening is under way the effect of 1-MCP is not so >> marked, so later harvest is not the solution. >> >> I would add that the advent of 1-MCP has changed my planting strategy >> from >> Jonagold type apples to Elstar type apples. >> >> Con >> >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mike Willett >> Sent: 30 April 2014 06:36 >> To: Apple-crop discussion list >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> >> As you can imagine, we have been following this issue very closely for a >> number of years. According to the U.S. EPA's Registration Eligibility >> Decision for DPA, diphenyl nitrosamine is a trace contaminant in >> technical >> DPA. In the most recent risk assessment (2012) done in the EU for DPA, >> by >> Ireland's Pesticide Registration & Control Division as the rapporteur >> member >> state (RMS), it came to this conclusion: >> >> "N-nitrosodiphenylamine is found at trace levels, below the LOQ in >> processed >> apple samples. When you consider the toxicological profile of this >> nitrosamine and the amounts at which it is likely to be consumed, the RMS >> calculations show that there are no safety concerns. One must also >> consider >> that diphenylamine is not applied to apples destined for the processing >> market, it is only applied to freshly consumed table apples, as >> appearance >> of these apples is very important. >> >> Therefore, the RMS remains supportive of the approval of diphenylamine." >> >> In the study that generated the opinion above which was done to address >> home >> processing of apples that were originally sold for fresh consumption, no >> nitrosamines were found in raw apples, nor in apple juice; only in >> blended >> and chopped apples ("processed" apples). >> >> The decision announced in March of this year indicates that the reason >> the >> MRL for DPA was reduced to 0.1 ppm was because of data gaps in the >> registration package that had been submitted. The EU DPA Task Force has >> vigorously protested the allegation of data gaps but, at any rate, the >> reduction in the MRL in the EU was not based on a definitive assessment >> of >> risk. >> >> While I am not an expert in this area, given the discussion regarding >> 1-MCP, >> while it is very effective at preventing scald, work done by Jim Mattheis >> at >> USDA/ARS-Wenatchee and Chris Watkins at Cornell, notes that in certain >> situations use of 1-MCP can increase certain fruit disorders, some >> related >> to CO2 injury. Many packers in the U.S. Pacific Northwest, now use lower >> rates of DPA in combination with 1-MCP to maximize its benefits. >> >> Mike Willett >> Northwest Horticultural Council >> www.nwhort.org<http://www.nwhort.org> >> will...@nwhort.org<mailto:will...@nwhort.org> >> 509.969.0245 mobile >> >> This message is from a remote location, sometimes truly remote. >> ________________________________ >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of David A. Rosenberger >> [da...@cornell.edu] >> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 10:46 AM >> To: Apple-crop discussion list >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> Hello, Con - >> Since grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some >> nitrosamines, >> I'm assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? :) >> >> **************************************************************** >> Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus >> Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology >> Cornell's Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 >> Office: 845-691-7231 Cell: 845-594-3060 >> http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/ >> **************************************************************** >> >> On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas >> <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: >> >> Hello Mosbah, >> The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per >> 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with >> DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. >> By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is >> that >> when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of >> chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than >> others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines >> from >> diets, and therefore DPA is gone. >> I do remember when DPA was "cleaned-up", but its breakdown products will >> be >> nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. >> >> Con >> >> ________________________________ >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net>] >> on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M >> [kus...@illinois.edu<mailto:kus...@illinois.edu>] >> Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 >> To: Apple-crop discussion list >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants >> that >> blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the >> peel. >> Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from >> regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald. >> In >> the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that >> absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being >> practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, >> harvest >> fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from >> the market around the 80's because it was suspected to cause cancer. >> However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any >> impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about >> 1-methylecyclopropene >> (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. >> Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites >> where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are >> occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to >> human. Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was >> introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, >> university >> of Illinois. >> >> Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your >> operation? >> >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher >> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM >> To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop >> discussion list' >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> >> Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and >> what >> the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I >> walked into the middle of a conversation. >> >> Thanks, >> -- >> Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? >> On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, "Con.Traas" >> <con.tr...@ul.ie<mailto:con.tr...@ul.ie>> wrote: >> Hello Evan and everybody, >> >> Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA >> for >> storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, >> but >> we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and >> expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically >> possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't >> use, >> but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of >> the >> larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. >> >> It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods >> (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods >> (as >> though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the >> studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies >> conducted >> with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they >> are >> not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and >> vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and >> vegetables >> have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an >> apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below >> permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we >> are >> left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. >> >> The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or >> clean >> fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a >> pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could >> be >> eating a residue-free fruit from among the "dirty dozen", or one covered >> in >> pesticide from among the "clean fifteen". >> >> Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I >> favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, >> despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here >> is >> constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be >> our stereotyped image of US industrial agriculture. That is because the >> regulations have more in common than what separates them, and farming is >> becoming more and more like a business, and less like a passion. >> >> I am personally not a fan of industrial agriculture, although I employ >> mostly similar methods. However, motivation is a key factor, and for me, >> the >> motivation is not profit maximisation. For the industrial model is about >> profit before all else, and that is not a suitable way for the World to >> produce its food. >> >> However, as long as Joe public takes the attitude that 7% of their >> disposable income is what they will spend on food (that is the Irish %), >> then agriculture will continue to become more industrial, as for me that >> is >> not a percentage that can support the production of produce and foods >> that >> consumers might feel more comfortable buying, and might be able to have >> more >> confidence in. >> >> So, instead of sending 45 bucks to Ken Cook, I would suggest that Joe >> public >> either sends it to a principled (and hopefully small-scale) farmer >> someplace >> near them, or better still, buys a few fruit trees or invests in a few >> packets of seeds, and grows their own pesticide-free produce. >> >> Con Traas >> European (Irish) Apple Grower >> T: @theapplefarmer >> >> From: >> apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net> >> [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Evan B. >> Milburn >> Sent: 28 April 2014 02:32 >> To: Apple-Crop >> Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals >> >> This was sent to me from a friend of mine by the name of George. It was >> send to him from one of his co-workers. >> Evan Milburn >> >> www.milburnorchards.com<http://www.milburnorchards.com/> >> >> >> Hey Evan what's this all about? >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> apple-crop mailing list >> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >> >> >> _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list >> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net<mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> >> http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop >> > _______________________________________________ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
