The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 470 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: <E30> running problems and stomp test Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test; follow up Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test <E30> w/snow tires twisting Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting [SPAM : scl = 7] Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting Snow Chains/Cables???? Re: Snow Chains/Cables???? E34 M50 No Start - ideas?
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:42:11 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: <E30> running problems and stomp test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Car is an '87 325i w/JC chip, about 239K and has been running well... until just before I shut it off Thursday afternoon. While pulling it into the garage (the car had been warmed up but not really hot) it started running just a little rough and the check engine light came on. The roughness was not extreme so I attributed it to cold weather (single digits). I live 1.5 miles from work and even taking a roundabout route doesn't really get things properly hot. When I tried starting it this morning, it wouldn't keep running. Seems likes only 4.5 cylinders are firing. Oddly, it seems to run smooth when accelerating a little hard, but misses horribly all other times; almost like a little backfire instead of just a miss. (Several years ago the car broke a rocker arm; right now the car has better acceleration than it did then w/only 5 cylinders firing but idles and runs worse) Warming up the car hasn't helped. I haven't been able to look at anything much yet (have a day job) but will pull the plugs and start looking more closely later today. Did try the stomp test and got no results so wonder if I'm doing it right: ignition on, gas pedal to floor 5 times, watch light blink? Right now the light just stays on. 1. Is this the proper way for the stomp test? 2. Any suggestions welcome; I will pull plugs and look over all vacuum lines and electrical connections. Clarence West Bend, WI -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:17:34 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test; follow up Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> At lunch I started it, kept it going for a bit waiting for a good break in traffic, and then while going into 3rd gear it was running normal again and the check engine light had gone out. Plugs looked OK, all wires and connections seemed OK. I'm baffled but wonder if it might have been a temporary ECU/electrical glitch. On a few occassions in the past, in really cold weather and usually during overnight, the radio and OBC have zeroed out, as if they had lost power. On last Thursday while shopping the radio lost its coding but the OBC was OK. Can't help but think that might have had something to do w/the way it was running. Clarence West Bend, WI John Bolhuis wrote: > On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 09:42:11AM -0600, Clarence wrote: > > >>Did try the stomp test and got no results so wonder if I'm doing it >>right: ignition on, gas pedal to floor 5 times, watch light blink? >>Right now the light just stays on. > > > The stomp test can be difficult to get right the first time. The > important thing is that the car sees the throttle position switch close > both at wide-open and idle those 5 times. > > Check the throttle position sensor? :) > > Good idea to check all the electrical connectors - for sure check the > large one under the intake manifold. It connects the fuel injectors and > the coolant temp sensors. > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:19:09 -0600 From: Jenny Morgan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Clarence Baby... Chck your main air flow boot, oil filler cap, and dipstick... Call me if ya need to Jenny On Dec 27, 2004, at 9:42 AM, Clarence wrote: > Car is an '87 325i w/JC chip, about 239K and has been running well... > until just before I shut it off Thursday afternoon. While pulling it > into the garage (the car had been warmed up but not really hot) it > started running just a little rough and the check engine light came > on. > > The roughness was not extreme so I attributed it to cold weather > (single digits). I live 1.5 miles from work and even taking a > roundabout route doesn't really get things properly hot. When I tried > starting it this morning, it wouldn't keep running. Seems likes only > 4.5 cylinders are firing. Oddly, it seems to run smooth when > accelerating a little hard, but misses horribly all other times; > almost like a little backfire instead of just a miss. (Several years > ago the car broke a rocker arm; right now the car has better > acceleration than it did then w/only 5 cylinders firing but idles and > runs worse) > > Warming up the car hasn't helped. I haven't been able to look at > anything much yet (have a day job) but will pull the plugs and start > looking more closely later today. > > Did try the stomp test and got no results so wonder if I'm doing it > right: ignition on, gas pedal to floor 5 times, watch light blink? > Right now the light just stays on. > > 1. Is this the proper way for the stomp test? > 2. Any suggestions welcome; I will pull plugs and look over all > vacuum lines and electrical connections. > > Clarence > West Bend, WI > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > ___ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW > CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:31:39 -0500 From: "Chris Pawlowicz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Clarence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "UUC Digest" <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> running problems and stomp test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From: "Clarence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Car is an '87 325i w/JC chip, about 239K and has been running well... > until just before I shut it off Thursday afternoon. While pulling it into > the garage (the car had been warmed up but not really hot) it started > running just a little rough and the check engine light came on. > stomp test: -nope, it doesn't sound like it's working right for you.. turn key to ignition, check engine light comes on, stop pedal to floor 5 x, not too fast, rate is about 2 a second.. after 5 times release, CE light will go off, then come back on for a while, then back off, then comes back on giving the blink codes.. when it's done the 4 digit blink code it will then come on for a longish time before repeating -I've had icing problems in the AFM which cause problems like you described.. generally only when it's been warm and then the temperature drops down to -30C (-20F) or so.. (happened again to me last week :) -if there is ice in the gas it can also cause lots of problems.. (not just from bad gas.. if you run with anything less than half a tank you often get condensation inside the tank, resulting in water/ice forming... crystals can clog up the fuel filter).. gas line antifreeze can help for this -check the AFM boot and oil filler cap also to make sure they're all leak free chris pawlowicz '89 325i (365k km) '99 Z3 2.8 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:30:45 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: <E30> w/snow tires twisting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> No, it's not dancing, but acting strange. Put the snow tires on about a week ago; Nokian Hokkywhatevers. Upon acceleration the car twists, the rear moving to the right. When I back off I can feel it 'untwist.' This is noticable to the point that the steering requires minor correction on accel- and deceleration. This happens w/a spirited start or even on the highway hitting it at 60mph in 4th. And, it seems just way too squirly at highway speeds. Things didn't seem this bad last year w/these tires. I just checked air pressure, 37F, 36R; lug nuts are tight. The car had rear subframe bushings replaced this past summer. I'm wondering if anybody else has this issue w/dedicated snow tires. I expect there to be some squirmishness, but not this much. Finally, I would not recommend these tires to anyone unless they were going to be doing A LOT of driving in snow or on ice. I would prefer a set of Nokian WRs (have them on the wife's E34) which do OK in snow and much better on dry and wet roads, where 99% of my driving is done. Any thoughts appreciated. Clarence West Bend, WI -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 14:23:15 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Gary Derian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting [SPAM : scl = 7] Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yup; all bought and mounted in 12/2002 and rotated front to back each year. I don't recall this problem from last year although toward the end of the season I thought I was becoming more sensitive to the squirminess on the highway, but blamed it on warmer outdoor temps. Oh, they're Hakka Qs. Clarence West Bend, WI Gary Derian wrote: > Are all 4 tires the same diameter? My cars all drive nearly the same > with snow or summer tires. Softer steering and lower cornering limits > of course, but the stability is not changed. > > Gary Derian > > >> No, it's not dancing, but acting strange. Put the snow tires on about >> a week ago; Nokian Hokkywhatevers. Upon acceleration the car twists, >> the rear moving to the right. When I back off I can feel it >> 'untwist.' This is noticable to the point that the steering requires >> minor correction on accel- and deceleration. This happens w/a >> spirited start or even on the highway hitting it at 60mph in 4th. >> >> And, it seems just way too squirly at highway speeds. Things didn't >> seem this bad last year w/these tires. >> >> I just checked air pressure, 37F, 36R; lug nuts are tight. >> >> The car had rear subframe bushings replaced this past summer. >> >> I'm wondering if anybody else has this issue w/dedicated snow tires. >> I expect there to be some squirmishness, but not this much. >> >> Finally, I would not recommend these tires to anyone unless they were >> going to be doing A LOT of driving in snow or on ice. I would prefer >> a set of Nokian WRs (have them on the wife's E34) which do OK in snow >> and much better on dry and wet roads, where 99% of my driving is done. <snip> -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 13:23:22 -0800 (PST) From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --- Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No, it's not dancing, but acting strange. Put the snow tires on about a > week ago; Nokian Hokkywhatevers. Upon acceleration the car twists, the > rear moving to the right. When I back off I can feel it 'untwist.' This > is noticable to the point that the steering requires minor correction on > accel- and deceleration. This happens w/a spirited start or even on the > highway hitting it at 60mph in 4th. Although unlikely, one tire could have an issue, try swapping tires around. For instance, a friend of mine had installed four new Michelin MXX3s on his M Roadster this summer. He noticed a very similar issue to what you claim. Turns out that one of the MXX3 was a different OE specification (Porsche IIRC) and so he technically had two different construction 245/40/17 Michelin MXX3s on the rear, Tire Rack swapped the one out and the issue was gone. So, two seemingly identical tires were different. Maybe the parking brake is hanging on one side? > And, it seems just way too squirly at highway speeds. Things didn't > seem this bad last year w/these tires. I have the same tires (Nokian Hakka Qs on my '91 318is) and I don't have any of these issues. Although the tires have taller and softer sidewalls and you can tell, I wouldn't say that the handling is anything similar to what you claim. Also, it is quite a bit different when going from a 60 series snow tire on a 14" rim to a 55 series high performance tire on a 15" rim but that is the case when you go from one tire designed for one extreme to a tire designed for the other extreme. I even have my front toe at about zero and I get a little wandering (I might tweak the toe a little) but it isn't an issue at all. > I just checked air pressure, 37F, 36R; lug nuts are tight. Obviously that is good. > The car had rear subframe bushings replaced this past summer. I need to do those. Are you sure you did them properly? > I'm wondering if anybody else has this issue w/dedicated snow tires. I > expect there to be some squirmishness, but not this much. A little squirmy...yes, hazardous, no. > Finally, I would not recommend these tires to anyone unless they were > going to be doing A LOT of driving in snow or on ice. I would prefer a > set of Nokian WRs (have them on the wife's E34) which do OK in snow and > much better on dry and wet roads, where 99% of my driving is done. After all your troubles stated above, be careful about not recommending a tire when it doesn't necessarily appear to be the reason for your issues. I have Nokian Hakka Qs and I love them and they have been worth every penny this past December in Ohio (driving mostly on the highways which have been hazardous to a lot of cars spinning off the road lately). Having tires for the worst conditions you may face can be very beneficial and giving up a little during the "good conditions" in the winter season is easily managed. Nokian WRs are good tires too and would obviously offer better dry/wet performance but give up on some of the snow traction (but still better than nearly any other "all-season" tire). I find the Hakka Qs on an E30 to be perfectly acceptable during the cold dry/wet conditions that I normally see in Ohio during December-April although I may try the Nokian WR or Nokian RSI next time (as the Hakka Qs are slowly being discontinued). They wear like iron though so who knows what offerings there may be when I go to replace them. > Any thoughts appreciated. Regards, Rich ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 16:13:49 -0600 From: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: <E30> w/snow tires twisting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Richard Dorffer wrote: > Although unlikely, one tire could have an issue, try swapping tires around. > For instance, a > friend of mine had installed four new Michelin MXX3s on his M Roadster this > summer. He noticed a > very similar issue to what you claim. Turns out that one of the MXX3 was a > different OE > specification (Porsche IIRC) and so he technically had two different > construction 245/40/17 > Michelin MXX3s on the rear, Tire Rack swapped the one out and the issue was > gone. So, two > seemingly identical tires were different. Very interesting, though I wonder if Nokia is as particular in the manufacture of this type of tire as Michelin for its higher end products. At least I'll look at the stampings on the tires to see if I can divine anything. I had purchased these from the distributor in Milwaukee. I may also rotate front and back. > Maybe the parking brake is hanging on one side? I can check, but nothing else indicates any type of brake hanging. > I have the same tires (Nokian Hakka Qs on my '91 318is) and I don't have any of these issues. > Although the tires have taller and softer sidewalls and you can tell, I > wouldn't say that the > handling is anything similar to what you claim. Also, it is quite a bit > different when going from > a 60 series snow tire on a 14" rim to a 55 series high performance tire on a > 15" rim but that is > the case when you go from one tire designed for one extreme to a tire > designed for the other > extreme. I do expect to adjust driving habits to the winter tires, but straight line 70-90mph shouldn't cause what I'm feeling, leading me to believe something is wrong. This is aside from the 'twisting' on acceleration. > >>The car had rear subframe bushings replaced this past summer. > > > I need to do those. Are you sure you did them properly? I had them done by an independent shop, so I can only assume they're in right. I've tracked the car several days since having them done w/o any issues, in fact being very happy w/the car's handling. Still it was a question in my mind; OTOH, I didn't have any issues w/the summer tires up to the time of taking them off. > > After all your troubles stated above, be careful about not recommending a > tire when it doesn't > necessarily appear to be the reason for your issues. I have Nokian Hakka Qs > and I love them and > they have been worth every penny this past December in Ohio (driving mostly > on the highways which > have been hazardous to a lot of cars spinning off the road lately). Having > tires for the worst > conditions you may face can be very beneficial and giving up a little during > the "good conditions" > in the winter season is easily managed. Good point; these tires have come recommended by many people. Even w/the caveat that spirited driving needs to be reined in, the general concensus is that only (maybe) a brand new Blizzak will beat them in snow and on ice. If my post sounded like I was ragging a tire, I didn't mean it that way. Unfortunately that last number of years has seen, IMO, a decrease in the snow we get in SE Wisconsin and an increase in the use of salt and sometimes plows. Last winter I found myself going out at odd hours w/the sole purpose of driving through snow to learn with the car and use the tires. Within a few hours of a snowfall most things are open. Although I live in a small town, I'm close to Milwaukee and the whole area is kept pretty clear. My job and lifestyle don't require me to be navigating untraveled country roads, so maybe I'm overequipped. > > Nokian WRs are good tires too and would obviously offer better dry/wet > performance but give up on > some of the snow traction (but still better than nearly any other > "all-season" tire). I find the > Hakka Qs on an E30 to be perfectly acceptable during the cold dry/wet > conditions that I normally > see in Ohio during December-April although I may try the Nokian WR or Nokian > RSI next time (as the > Hakka Qs are slowly being discontinued). They wear like iron though so who > knows what offerings > there may be when I go to replace them. I am very impressed w/the WRs on the wife's E34. Though they've seen very little snow, they're good on dry and excellent in the wet (at least while they have this much tread). But you have a good point; like so much else, tire technology changes so rapidly it's difficult to make the right choice. Clarence West Bend, WI -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.5 - Release Date: 12/26/2004 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:06:49 -0800 From: Harvey Chao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Snow Chains/Cables???? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hope you all had a Merry Christmas! I have a 2000 528i w/stock 225/60 15" all season radials. We are planning a "one time" trip up to the Sierras in Feb. The rule of thumb is NEVER head up there in the winter w/o chains, even if it looks clear. Having lived in the Bay area since '75, hearing other's experiences every winter, that's a reasonable/rational concept. For a one time trip, buying snow tires is not a financially rational option (living in the SF Bay area and not a frequenter of the Sierras in the winter). So - assuming I can rent chains or cables - what specifically do I need? The owner's manual talks about using "only BMW narrow chains" or words to that effect. Any of you folks in the MidWest or NorthEast have some reasonable suggestions? Thanks! Harvey The box said "Requires Windows 95, or better." So I bought a Macintosh. I live with fear, death, and evil...but I used to be able to turn it off and use a Mac. " Author Unknown Failure is not an option. It comes bundled with your Microsoft product. -- Ferenc Mantfeld ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 22:29:43 -0800 From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Snow Chains/Cables???? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Mon, Dec 27, 2004 at 12:06:49PM -0800, Harvey Chao wrote: > I have a 2000 528i w/stock 225/60 15" all season radials. > So - assuming I can rent chains or cables - what specifically do I > need? The owner's manual talks about using "only BMW narrow chains" > or words to that effect. Since there isn't a lot of clearance around there, you need tight fitting narrow chains. Others have recommended Z-Chains, and I have fit them on my e39 with 17" sport wheels. (though I have not driven on them yet, except up the driveway as a test) http://www.autosportcatalog.com/index.cfm/fa/p/pid/1046/sc/2737 Oh, and don't assume you can rent chains. And everyone who sells chains has a "NO RETURNS ON CHAINS" sign hanging up somewhere. -- "It is an honor to be Cookie Monster." -Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 06:18:00 -0500 From: "Karl Zemlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: E34 M50 No Start - ideas? Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> '94 525i touring. Indianapolis - it's been cold here. First day below zero(F) and the car wouldn't start. It would fire on occation - stumble a little - plenty of battery and cranking - just won't run. Dumped a pint or so of isopropyl alcohol in the tank - it's been a few days - car still won't start. I have a new fuel filter to put in - I'll do that today. Temperatures may actually get above freezing so that will likely go in today. I've checked under the hood for air leaks - haven't seen anything. Any other simple things I should be looking at before I start worrying about something bigger ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(11 messages) **********
