OK, I see your point. So it should be Yamato reply the question if he like.
:)
Aja
From: Jouni Valkonen
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 6:45 PM
To: Aja Huang ; computer-go
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
Aja, you are talking something that has zero relevance for this topic. Zen
was winning by ½ point, but it miscalculated in late yose and blundered
severely. This was serious endgame bug. This thread has absolutely nothing
to do with the fact that the game was mirrored, but only that that Zen throw
away the game in late yose.
I have seen in my own games several times, when Zen has blundered in late
yose and have lost a won games. I think that it is due that zen is winning
by half point or so, but miscalculates and then tries something irrational.
It would be good idea to analyze, to see what went wrong with Zen's
evaluation of the score. Was that it miscalculated the territory or did it
misread the seki thing?
–Jouni
On 17 January 2012 02:44, Aja Huang <ajahu...@gmail.com> wrote:
I am not talking about that Zen’s “blunder” but simply mentioned in
passing about handling mirroring strategy that Yamato and we don’t want to
spend time with. For this game, you should be strong enough to judge Zen was
winning or not.
Aja
From: Jouni Valkonen
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:33 PM
To: Aja Huang ; computer-go@dvandva.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
I think that the main problem was not winning or losing a mirrored game
but the blunder in late endgame by playing suicidal move. Perhaps Zen was
losing the game, so this was the reason for the blunder. But if Zen was
winning, then it was serious bug and it had nothing to do with the mirroring
itself.
—Jouni
On Jan 17, 2012 2:26 AM, "Aja Huang" <ajahu...@gmail.com> wrote:
In the last UEC Cup, the Japanese program katsunari played with mirror
Go strategy against Zen, Fuego and ManyFaces. katsunari lost all three
games.
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/Zen-katsunari.sgf.html
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-Fuego.sgf.html
http://jsb.cs.uec.ac.jp/~igo/eng/result_2nd/katsunari-TheManyFacesofGo.sgf.html
Note that Fuego lost the game finally (by filling own territories)
because I carelessly set the config with Chinese rules. Anyway, there
should be no problem for current strong Go programs on mirror Go strategy in
"EVEN or tournament games".
Aja
-----原始郵件----- From: Yamato
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 5:16 PM
To: computer-go@dvandva.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Zen blunder in long mirror go game
(2012/01/17 8:43), Michael Williams wrote:
If the author looks at it, could you update us? I'm always curious
about how such things happen, especially in a bot as strong as Zen.
Honestly I don't want to spend a lot of time on this type of problem.
--
Yamato
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