-Caveat Lector- on 3/17/02 11:55 PM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, thew wrote: > >> on 3/17/02 9:27 PM, Party of Citizens at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> On Sun, 17 Mar 2002, inri wrote: >>> >>>>> For example a bat is an intermediate form >>>>> between a mammal and a bird. That doesn't prove mammals evolved into >>>>> birds. >>>> >>>> nor would anybody suggest that they did. >>> >>> Then why do you assume that birds and mammals evolved from reptiles? >>> POC >>> >> >> Best guess, based on what we know, with the fewest unproved assumptions? > > Guessing is guessing. Some guessing is closer to the truth , because it is based on observation. > >> (that's called scientific method) > > Guessing pushed with arrogant dogma (ie We priests of Scientism MUST be > right and those who say otherwise are crackpots...previously heretics) is > the worst excess of bad religion. Agreed. It ain't science. > > An intermediate form is an intermediate form. It proves nothing. The > intermediate form of a whale is obvious. Its overall body form is > fish-like. It has fin-like flukes..FORM like a fish. That proves: > > (a) fish became whales > (b) whales became fish > (c) both of the above > (d) neither of the above d > > It doesn't prove anything. Valid science is rational-empirical. What we > observe (empiricism) is fish and whales and some creatures like whales > whose morphology is intermediate. Sorry - its late ... Which creatures are in this 3rd category? >Scientism is both religious and > scientific quackery. To reason out (ie rationally) connect fish and whales > by intermediate form you need a mechanism. You need a huge mechanism to get from fish to whales - you need amphibians and land mammals for instance. It isn't small horses asses > becoming big horse's asses that gives you the mechanism. That is called > selection (natural or artificial). It works well for horse's asses. But > you need a horse's ass to start with and apply selection to. Wings and > legs and such are NEW forms. You can apply artificial selection very well > in the lab. It will give you bigger or smaller fins or flukes. It won't > turn a fin into a leg. That requires a mechanism like MUTATION or GENETIC > ENGINEERING. Mutation, as explained already doesn't work because it is > almost always deleterious and even the few adaptive mutations are small in > effect. 2 fallacies I don�t think you quite grasp how long a billion years is, and how much can be done in that time with trial and error. The 2nd is a subset of the 1st. Yes most mutations are deleterious. (note that mutations etc must be judged in light of their specific environment - a tail that is flatter may help more in the water than the dessert etc) But given BILLIONS of generations, even a small percentage of mutations that are advantageous ( in their environment) can lead to large changes. >Yes it is usually random as someone else posted. That is why > Darwinism predicts a fossil record littered with mutations gone wrong. > They aren't there! The fossil record looks more like a GENETIC ENGINEER > HAS BEEN AT WORK. It looks more like "intelligent design". WE have tons of fossils of mutations that did not work out - every extinct animal is an example. There are not that many fossils out there compared to the amount of life on the planet - the number of tyrannosaurs found number in the low double digits - the gaps are hugs... Its like a book with 80 % of the pages missing, and the letters on the remaining pages are all scrambled and half erased. It only looks like intelligent design in retrospect, or to those who need a amorphous night light to help them sleep. > > POC > -- ------------ ------------- ----------- -------------- ------------------- ------------------ Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is a force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master; never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action. George Washington NEURONAUTIC INSTITUTE on-line: http://home.earthlink.net/~thew <A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/";>www.ctrl.org</A> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER ========== CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic screeds are unwelcomed. Substance�not soap-boxing�please! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'�with its many half-truths, mis- directions and outright frauds�is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. 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