Scott Kitterman - 06.02.20, 06:27:44 CET: > >Are you suggesting that voters fully understood the implications? > >Is this OK now to replace everything with systemd counterparts? > > > >I certainly voted with considerations for _init_ system. > > > >If I recall correctly, no GR option suggested to "use as much systemd > >components as possible" or I think the outcome of GR could have been > >different... > > > >Anyway the big disadvantage of changing default is that now random > >Debian > >systems will have no traditional logging interface (rsyslog) and > >we're all > >will be forced to adapt to the new interface in the absence of old > >one on > >some systems... > > I think you need to go reread the option that won. > > I make no claims about what others understood or didn't, but to me > this is exactly the kind of thing that the winning option makes > likely. That doesn't mean I like it, but we had a GR, now we're > stuck with it.
Well, that is *exactly* why I thought the GR is not going to be helpful. Cause in *no way* it appeared to have *solved* the conflict underneath it. I'd still love to see otherwise. But right now I see the same "I am right and you are wrong" pattern arise in this discussion as before. And also the same meta discussion as in "you are not discussing it in the right way or proper way" code of conduct related thing. As if the GR did not even have concluded. The GR was still within a win-loose setting and here it shows. The GR did *not* change any of the involved people and their behavior. And my bet is, that it won't do that in the future anyway. That written: I do not care at all whether Systemd by default stores the journal persistently or not. Especially as I am not even using it on my own systems anymore. But I do not like rsyslog to be removed from the default install. It might be a nice idea to improve its default configuration here and there, but only with good justification. So for example SUSE has stopped using those insufficient time stamps with SLE 12 already. I know there is a compatibility bug somewhere… but if log reading software has not yet adapted to modern standard conform timestamps, I'd not let that hold back progress. I am considering to comment out that RSYSLOG_TraditionalFileFormat line, cause really let that old insufficient time stamps be gone already. I say this with my log analysis trainer hat on. With the same hat on I say… I still like to use rsyslog. I can process that with standard tools I can use with any other text file instead of having to learn a ton of options of journalctl. Simplicity as a goal. I love to see that come back to software development! And neither Logstash nor Fluentd or Graylog have issues dealing with those text files and manage to dig out the relevant information out of them just fine. Mind you, as far as I am aware neither SUSE nor Red Hat dared to remove rsyslog from their enterprise offerings so far. Just imagine the uproar this would cause! I know Fedora has it removed, but CentOS 7 certainly has not and neither SLE 12 and 15. I am not completely sure about CentOS 8 cause I did not consciously check, but I believe I have seen rsyslog running there as well. Best, -- Martin
