David -
At times like this its OK to sigh these emails: David "your pinata" Barker
:)
-Nick
----------------------------------------
From: "David Barker" <dbar...@declude.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 4:14 PM
To: declude.virus@declude.com
Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Nice. Thank you
for your feedback Markus.
>>MANY if
not most of all Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army
knife" as their tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in
their FULLY email filter system.
This is true
from the past and for many older Declude customers, but the market has changed
over the years - there are not enough people looking for "the Swiss army
knife" approach anymore. With managed services, hardware appliances etc.
anti-spam
and AV is a cost center for most ISP's and they would rather not have to
deal with it at all. IMail themselves started losing market share for the same
reasons which had a direct impact on the Declude business. So what "was"
is no more.
>>evolution
and new functionality in order to be able to stay ahead or at least near on top
of the market leaders.
Agreed, but also take into account the changing Mail systems, we support both
IMail
and Smartermail, specifically supporting Smartermail as they were growing while
IMail was shrinking. Every time a new release of IMail or Smartermail comes out
something inevitably changes meaning we have to deal with the MUST do's
rather than innovation. Again to combat this we just need additional developer/s
so that we can dedicate one to maintenance and the other/s to innovation. To do
this we need $ and that cost will always be carried over to you the customer,
which I have done my utmost best to avoid.
>> noted
the active community who has definitively helped to let Declude become what it
is/was isn't there anymore.
Yes that
community was (and what is left) is extremely helpful and useful.
>>All
this isn't there anymore. Why? Because people who was ready to contribute
hasn't received back what they want and need: If such people has asked
for a new feature even if it was a little piece of thing the maximum to >>
hear was that it will be placed on a long list of planned to-do's.
Depending on when this was and who was making the Declude decisions at the
time. But if I should speak for myself. I realize I can't make everyone
happy its part of my job. Here is a case in point, let's use this
scenario.
1. AVG fails
2. IMail release version 11 which is incompatible
with Declude
If I choose to
fix AVG first - IMail users scream
If I
choose to fix IMail first - All users scream
So in this
instance best decision is to let IMail users complain. Either way Declude in
one group of people is going to be the company that is "not doing enough"
for its customers. This is not really true but rather the perception.
>>In the
case you hasn't discovered it yet, from the begin of April on there was a
big increase of spam activity
This
information is very useful and this is why the lists exist if we can share
information we have a community that benefits.
>>If there
would be really someone taking technical care of this product he has should put
more then on eye in the past 2 months in order to keep this product at least
near to other spam filtering products. The cow was milked and milked and milked
and does urgently need now some fresh grass, water and maybe also a new
clean stable.
The only thing
that would change this current situation is revenues which means price increase.
(Maybe it is time?)
David
From: supp...@declude.com
[mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Gufler Markus | Limitis
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 3:26 PM
To: declude.virus@declude.com
Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th
year?
Sensitivity: Personal
Hi
David,
I'm
observing not only this AVG issue but many different things in the past 4 years
(while paying SA fee's). Your price is not that much that other
Spamfilter vendors ask for but keep in mind that MANY if not most of all
Declude users has initially chosen "the Swiss army knife" as their
tool who they can customize, enhance and integrate in their FULLY email filter
system.
Maybe we could
start a long and never ending thread if Declude should be a "flexible
tool" or a "complete suite" for customers, but in any case
both type of customers would need definitively one thing, and this is evolution
and new functionality in order to be able to stay ahead or at least near on top
of the market leaders. At the moment Declude stand-alone without additional
external tests, additional external AV-engines and additional pre-filtering
gateways like Alligate, IMHO is not a full, secure and reliable solution. Its
still an important piece but as you maybe has also noted the active community
who has definitively helped to let Declude become what it is/was isn't
there anymore. There was people who has made deep and precise analysis of
different
behaviors, issues and new type of attacks. Other people wrote external tests,
text filter files and the active help on this list was really helpful. On the
other (Declude) side there was someone noticing this and giving back feedback
and new requested features. All this isn't there anymore. Why? Because
people who was ready to contribute hasn't received back what they want
and need: If such people has asked for a new feature even if it was a little
piece of thing the maximum to hear was that it will be placed on a long list of
planned to-do's.
Looking at the
release notes, new features and response times for clearly analyzed issues in
the past 4 years - to be honest - my question is not how much developers do you
hire but for how many projects and companies your (single) developer is working
in part time. I'm not a prof.Developer but I have basic knowledge in
different programming language and are working nearly each day with many very
complex scripts having 1000+ lines of code. This "experience" let
me see that there can't be very much dev-man-power behind what we can see
in the release notes. The fact that the missing AV-functionality wasn't
discovered for over a month does also clearly turn out that nobody at Declude
has looked on what's going on on the spam and virus front during this
time.
In the case you
hasn't discovered it jet, from the begin of April on there was a big
increase of spam activity
Ham vs Spam in the past 200 days
If there would
be really someone taking technical care of this product he has should put more
then on eye in the past 2 months in order to keep this product at least near to
other spam filtering products.
Fortunately I
have running Alligate in front of Declude and have enabled other AV-engines so
I hadn't any complaint about undiscovered virus/malware. So my painful
insight of what happened with this AVG-issue is not that there was a security
leakage in my Declude+other tools-Suite but that it seems to become more and
more a fact what I fear for years now regarding Decludes future.
The cow was
milked and milked and milked and does urgently need now some fresh grass, water
and maybe also a new clean stable.
Markus
From: supp...@declude.com
[mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of David Barker
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 5:07 PM
To: declude.virus@declude.com
Subject: RE: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th
year?
Sensitivity: Personal
Andy,
a. Declude Virus does not have a built in
system to report this error as with this specific example. What happened here
is not the norm but an exception. It was not our choice to hard code the
expiration date but a requirement from AVG. In this instance the specific
persons who we had been working with at AVG are no longer with the company and
the process of having this renewed took longer than usual.
b. I am not sure if you are being
facetious, but if it makes you feel better, sure you can schedule a reminder
for me, please email me at least 3 month prior of the new expiration date
2010-12-31
c. Yes AVG was not working as it should
have been since 2009-04-10 I agree with you - this is totally
unacceptable, intolerable, painful and should not be brushed aside lightly. You
are correct in your observations, we should increase our prices dramatically so
we can hire more developers to ensure unfortunate incidents like this
don't happen again. Considering the market and what other vendors
charge how much more are you prepared to pay for your service agreement so that
we can meet this type of requirement ?
David Barker
VP Operations Declude
Your Email security is our business
978.499.2933 office
978.988.1311 fax
dbar...@declude.com
From: supp...@declude.com
[mailto:supp...@declude.com] On Behalf Of Andy Schmidt
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:08 AM
To: declude.virus@declude.com
Subject: [Declude.Virus] Declude Virus inoperable for 13% of th year?
Importance: High
Sensitivity: Personal
Hi,
Dave - so now that we have a working Declude Virus
again, what can be done to prevent this from recurring.
a)
Apparently Declude Virus has no error tracking in place
at all - otherwise it would have REPORTED to us (or your own Declude to
your own mail server) that the AVG API was no longer performing scans?
b)
Do the customers need to set a follow-up reminder for
December 2010, which is when your new renewed AVG license will expire?
The old DecludeProc had THIS AVG License String:
LicBeg,
Ver=1.0, Name="Declude", Exp=2009-04-10
So this implies, that the product was inoperable since April
10th for every customer because Declude didn't obtain a new
annual AVG license and had to wait a few days for this
"transaction" to complete? That means the product was unusable for
13% of the year?
This can't just be brushed aside quietly.
Best Regards,
Andy
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