Hi,

2009/10/27 Paul Boddie <[email protected]>:
> On Tuesday 27 October 2009 01:40:43 John Pinner wrote:
>>
>> I'm sorry I've been quiet lately: we are under a lot of pressure at
>> work, the good news is that we just heard that we got the contract for
>> the Archive Data Management system at Silverstone (the car race track
>> that is).
>
> Congratulations!
>
> I don't want to reduce your nicely written message too much, but I'd like to
> add a few points.
>
> [Sponsorship]
>
>> In future I do not think that we should rely on getting sponsorship,
>> nor should we spend valuable time chasing it, a simple announcement
>> and basic brochure is quite enough.
>
> I think this probably needs doing in a more timely fashion than it has been.
> The sponsorship brochure has been very good in recent years, and if this is
> the kind of thing sponsors like to see, then we should just get it to them
> sooner.

The sponsorship brochure went out in March.

>> We should not rely on sponsorship when budgetting, although if
>> sponsors do come forward that would be good. For example we could
>> budget for very basic food and increase the food budget nearer the
>> event if sponsors come forward.
>
> Agreed.
>
>> Sponsorship must be paid before the conference (say two weeks before).
>> We do not have time to chase payment afterwards.
>
> I think this goes for all payment, as far as possible. And I think we should
> be very skeptical about offers of things rather than cash from sponsors who
> aren't going to represent themselves at the event.
>
> [Numbers of Delegates]
>
>> In 2009 we had around 440 delegates (I think 446 was the final
>> number), which was more than we expected. The absolute maximum we can
>> handle in Birmingham (in facilities we can afford to hire) is 550. If
>> we go for more we would need to hire a much more expensive venue. In
>> our case this would be the International Conference Centre, but the
>> costs would mean that the delegate fees would be a lot higher than
>> many people could afford for a community conference.
>
> I was a bit worried about the number at the Conservatoire, really. It felt
> like the place was falling to pieces, and I wondered at one point whether it
> would be necessary to leave the venue to find a working toilet.
>
>> When they moved from Washington DC, PyCon US solved their venue
>> problem by using hotel conference centres, which meant that they had
>> to guarantee hotel rooms. As long as the conference expanded this was
>> OK, but this year the consequences were that PyCon lost, I think,
>> around $200000, and are liable for $300000 guarantees for 2010.
>
> Wow! I thought it was only EuroPython that lost money. ;-)
>
>> * We cannot afford to risk this.
>> * We must not guarantee hotel rooms.
>> * We should not be afraid to limit the number of delegates to that
>> which the venue can handle.
>
> Agreed on all counts. I note that the Django conferences have limited their
> numbers to great success.
>
>> Whilst the number of delegates that we might expect at future
>> EuroPythons may be 800-900, this number is beyond what (I think) can
>> be handled in a community conference: it is too much work for
>> volunteers to handle comfortably and rather than go for paid
>> organisers we should limit numbers and maintain a 'community
>> atmosphere'. An upper limit of 500-600 may be sensible. Given that
>> Europe seems to have more 'regional' conferences than the US already,
>> this may be OK.
>
> I think so too. Big conferences are impersonal and inefficient, and EuroPython
> shouldn't be aiming to be like some big academic/industry conference, either.
> (I notice that PyCon will be having poster areas, too. I'd argue that you'd
> only ever do this if you either wanted to waste large areas of the venue's
> floorspace or could afford to do so, but that's cynicism for you.)
>
> [Experience - agreed!]
>
> [Help]
>
>> It was quite noticeable that it was the same people doing most of the
>> work for the past several EuroPythons, and not always the locals
>> either. Several of the UK contingent did help with EP 2008, but this
>> was unusual.  There was no new blood from outside the UK helping with
>> EP2009.
>
> I continue to advocate a "global" working group for non-local stuff like the
> Web site, non-local publicity, registration, scheduling, and all that. This
> stuff should be continuously maintained and ready to use actively. Any "let's
> design a conference solution" proposals should be ignored until such a time
> when those proposing them actually have something which can actually take
> over more or less seamlessly.
>
> [Sprints]
>
>> At EP 2009 we did not have sufficient advance notice of what sprints
>> would be held, nor the numbers of participants. The sprints have a
>> considerable impact on the budget, as the sprinters do not pay for
>> them (nor should they), and the costs have to come out of the main
>> conference budget.
>>
>> Based on the 2009 experience, for EP 2010 we will not be providing
>> dedicated sprint facilities before the conference, but will do
>> afterwards.
>
> Maybe we need better publicity for this. I admit to not pursuing publicity
> matters this time, but I wasn't too impressed by the way things were done.

The publicity could have been approved, it suffered because our
publicity volunteer went awol during the run-up to EP, although the
publicity can't have been that bad bearing in mind the number of
delegates.

There was quite a lot of chasing sprinters, but I guess they have
their minds on higher things ;-)

> [Number of Talks]
>
>> We accepted too many talks for EP 2009, at least for the facilities we
>> booked. As we accepted more talks we booked more rooms, but these were
>> not big enough, and we had too many streams.
>>
>> For 2010 we plan to have an extra day for the conference talks, that
>> is four days instead of three, which means we can have fewer streams
>> and bigger rooms.
>
> I think you'll always get people arguing for more of one thing and less of
> another. Certainly, you don't want six tracks or six days, though.
>
> Again, I'll repeat what I've written above about retaining as much
> infrastructure and expertise as possible on a "global" basis. My feeling
> about EP2009 was that there were many willing volunteers - which is always
> good - some of whom could have spent more time working with the resources we
> already had.
>
> Although it's great to see people learn (and succeed), it's exasperating to
> see things redone that could have been kept from before. It's like having the
> next guy in a relay race start from the same place as you do, and you have to
> wait for *him* to catch *you* up before he takes the baton for the next leg
> of the race.
>
> All this makes for much wasted time which could have been used more wisely. I
> also think that overenthusiasm to start some things afresh discourages
> previous volunteers whose work ends up being undone/redone as a result. As I
> once said to much disdain a few years ago, the Olympic Games don't just take
> shape on a continual one-off basis: they're backed by a continuous
> organisational activity. Some of EuroPython's activities could operate
> similarly.

I think that you have the wrong impression, there was very little done afresh:

EP2009 used a development of the same booking/registration system as
EP2008 and PyCon UK 2008 which was a development of the PyCon UK 2007
one.

Likewise the EP2009 talks submission system was a development of PyCon
UK 2008/ EP2008.

The EP2009 wiki was born out of the EP2008 wiki, with a python.org
theme by TheSheep.

EP2008 registration was in a separate site to the wiki. For Ep2009
this site became the 'home' site with the static information, and this
used the python.org software.

So I think there was a good re-use of existing facilities, with
evolutionary development rather than revolutionary.

John
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