On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 2:50 PM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote:
*> I agree with John. What makes superdeterminism weird isn't the > determinism part. It's that the system is also rigged against us to produce > the Bell inequality.* > Yes. *> I am not sure if you saw my recent example on extropy-chat with flipping > coins and always seeing heads 66% of the time, no matter what we do, but > superdeterminism is basically saying that's just how it is the universe has > preordained that humans flip coins such that they come up head's 66% of the > time.* > That's a good example of the sort of thing I was talking about, superdeterminism claims that the universe is lying to us. It sort of reminds me of the holy rollers and snake handlers who insist that God buried dinosaur bones deep in the ground just 5000 years ago but made them look like they were millions of years old in order to test our faith. God is supposed to be much smarter and much more powerful than we are so if he wants to fool us he certainly has the capacity to do so, but if we fall for his trickery He will torture for an infinite (the Bible doesn't make clear if that infinity is Aleph 0 or Aleph1) number of years. But as George Carlin reminds us, HE LOVES YOU! John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis> ghe > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2023, 2:47 PM Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, 2 Sep 2023 at 04:20, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:22 PM Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >> according to superdeterminism the particular initial condition the >>>>> universe was in 13.8 billion years ago has determined if you think >>>>> superdeterminism is a reasonable theory or if you think it's complete >>>>> bullshit. As for me I was determined to believe it's bullshit. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *>I still struggle to see the difference between determinism and >>>> superdeterminism. They both say that there is no true randomness* >>>> >>> >>> Yes. >>> >>> >>>> * > which includes randomness in how the experimenters set up their >>>> experiment.* >>>> >>> >>> No. Knowing the laws of physics is not enough, to make predictions you >>> also need to know the initial conditions. Superdeterminism says more than a >>> given state of the universe is the mathematical product of the previous >>> state, superdeterminism assumes, for no particular reason, that out of the >>> infinite number of states the universe could've started out at, 13.8 >>> billion years ago it was in the one and only one particular state that >>> would make experimenters 13.8 billion years later "choose" to set their >>> instruments in such a way that they always *INCORRECTLY* conclude that >>> things can *NOT* be both realistic and local. It would be absolutely >>> impossible to make a larger assumption than this, and that is why it is the >>> largest violation of Occam's Razor conceivable. There are an infinite >>> number of initial conditions the universe could've started out in and in >>> which things would be deterministic today, but one and only one initial >>> condition would produce the universe in which superdeterminism is true. And >>> if superdeterminism were true then there would be no point in performing >>> scientific experiments since there would be no reason for them to lead >>> to the truth, and yet airplanes fly and bridges don't collapse so they do >>> seem to lead to the truth, there is no way to explain that unless the >>> initial conditions were even further restrained such that we set our >>> instruments correctly on all experiments *EXCEPT* when the >>> experimenters try to test for realism or locality, then we "choose" to set >>> them incorrectly. That's why I don't understand how anyone can take this >>> seriously. That is why I think superdeterminism is bullshit. >>> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv0HXrnUD5bdHmF_691jpXexWh_cKj3A%3DjRKwoT2kZCbBw%40mail.gmail.com.
