+1 to the tone comments, but my verdict is still out on greenwald, though until I see the lawyers and privacy people talking a big game (not just executives) I would tend to believe there is more than a grain of accuracy. On Jun 9, 2013 6:45 AM, "Nadim Kobeissi" <na...@nadim.cc> wrote:
> Jake, > I don't agree with x z (and rather agree with you), but I'm really tired > of just how aggressive and rude you always are on Libtech. And it doesn't > appear to just be towards me. I'm not the only person who feels like this. > > Even if you're right, tone your ego knob down already. Be nice. I can > barely read through threads anymore. Thank you. > > NK > > On 2013-06-09, at 9:15 AM, Jacob Appelbaum <ja...@appelbaum.net> wrote: > > > x z: > >> 2013/6/8 Jacob Appelbaum <ja...@appelbaum.net> > >> > >>> Oh man, Glenn Greenwald is my hero and a hero to us all. > >> > >> > >> Do you still believe Glenn's reporting that NSA has "direct access to > >> servers of firms including Google, Apple and Facebook"? > > > > > > Yeah, I think it is clearly a FISA interface or API of some kind. Either > > that or it is pwnage of the server. Probably one or the other in some > cases. > > > >> In my view, he > >> misled the world intentionally (the few prism training slides published > did > >> not seem to claim this). Glenn is at best a wacky journalist without > common > >> sense. > > > > He just broke the story of the decade, good to know your views on him. > > > >> > >> His reporting on the Verizon case was good, but I think his credibility > >> bankrupted after the PRISM one. > > > > We disagree, obviously. You'll see soon enough and when you're eating > > crow, I'm sure we'll have another discussion. > > > >> > >> Everyone on > >>> this list who was looking for 'some evidence' about global surveillance > >>> and previously ignored all other evidence, well, here you go! > >>> > >>> "Revealed: The NSA's powerful tool for cataloguing data – including > >>> figures on US collection" > >>> > >>> > >>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-boundless-informant-global-datamining > >>> > >>> This screenshot from the program is very web 2.0: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/8/1370715185657/boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg > >>> > >>> The NSA is spying on the US and on the rest of the planet. There is no > >>> ability to deny this anymore. Anyone who denies it is a complete moron. > >>> > >>> I don't understand why this "evidence" is significant in any way. NSA > >> certainly has lots of information, and a web2.0'ish tool is nothing > >> surprising. It's rather moot to state "anyone who denies it is a > complete > >> moron". It's like the highway patrol keeping my driving record. > >> > > > > Why does it matter if you are surprised? > > > > Also, your analogy is tired and boring. This is nothing like a highway > > patrol. > > > >> Again, I'm not rooting for NSA. I think its power need to be limited > and it > >> needs more transparency. But I hate using misinformation or hyperbole to > >> achieve that goal. This hurts the credibility of all the pro-privacy > groups > >> in general. > > > > I don't see any misinformation or hyperbole from Glenn. I see > > contradicting claims between governments and corporations. I also see > > that he wanted to ensure everyone understood what each side claimed. > > Note the very carefully worded denials all around. > > > > All the best, > > Jacob > > -- > > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech > > -- > Too many emails? Unsubscribe, change to digest, or change password by > emailing moderator at compa...@stanford.edu or changing your settings at > https://mailman.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/liberationtech >
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