Linux-Advocacy Digest #315, Volume #27 Sat, 24 Jun 00 18:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Where is Linux going? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1) (Gary Hallock)
MCSE :-) (was: Lost Cause Theater) (Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?=)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?=)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes (Peter Ammon)
Re: Why Jeff Szarka Has Zero Credibility When He Claims Problems With Linux
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: The MEDIA this year! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Joseph C Fineman)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! ("xxx")
Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft Ruling
Too Harsh
Re: Help setting up a home network.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is Linux going?
Date: 24 Jun 2000 15:29:09 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Goofy root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>By the end of this year Corel will have the largest installed base of
>Linux workstations. The reason is simple. Corel's office suite works
>great and there is no other vendor that offers an equivalent product.
No it isn't simple. If Corel does anything to make it difficult
to use their applications on other Linux distributions they
will commit suicide. Microsoft got away with bundling the
OS and apps for a while because there was no real competition.
This can't be repeated with Linux, certainly not at this point
where more popular competing distributions already exist.
>Corel workgroups will replace Windows workgroups throughout most
>organizations because of cost. Managers worldwide will save corporations
>hundreds of millions of dollars by installing Corel workgroups that
>access NT applications via thin clients and workgroups that use
>WordPerfect 2000. Besides the move by corporations, the US Education
>system will use Corel because of cost.
MS isn't going to go away. Linux does need apps, but you also
have to take Sun giving away StarOffice into account. Anyone
choosing a workable platform strictly on cost will probably
go with whichever distribution installs with the least trouble
and includes *no* commercial apps so it can be cloned with no
license fees. Then they will drop in StarOffice or whatever
currently looks best in the KDE or Gnome works.
>RedHat and others Linux
>distributions won't be considered because they don't have the
>Applications.
Not bundling commecial apps is a good thing. Corel will have to
compete in terms of no-license distributions if they want
market share. And if they want to sell apps they will have
to make them install cleanly on competing distributions.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:36:33 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1)
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> I have heard that upgrading Linux is a bit of a nightmare, so it was with
> some tripidation I started the upgrade of Linux Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1.
>
> The upgrade itself went relatively smoothly, apart from two packages that
> had errors. They didn't look like important, so I continued.
>
> The 'grub' bootstrap package duplicated the LILO entries and added new
> entries. I tried to reduce the entries and found the first wart in the
> installation program. I found every time I selected one entry, I kept
> getting a dialog for another entry. Anyway, I let that be and tried a
> reboot.
>
> The first reboot died as initrd was missing; so I tried 'fallback'
> and got the system to boot Linux. I edited the menu.lst file for grub and
> tidied up the entries to my liking. Grub does have a means to edit the
> entries on boot... except it doesn't seem to save the edits made!
>
> Once booted, I found myself running Linux Mandrake 7.1. I logged in, and
> started up X, and found the devastation made by the installer!
>
> i) Half the icons/menu entries I originally had were gone. Entries like
> KEdit for instance.
>
> ii) Log/Text files were assigned to StarOffice! Huh!
>
> iii) On shutdown a new interface (ippp0) generated a Failed message.
>
> iv) Devices assigned icons were duplicated; the DOS disk was renamed and
> another icon added. I thought this kind of bug was specifically a Windows
> one!
>
> This is very disappointing. It's not a disaster, but no upgrade should
> 'remove' menu entries/icons, or reassign file type to different
> applications! If this is what I've found so far, I wonder what else is
> lurking!
>
> Pete
When you say it removed menu entries, are you talking about things that you
had put in the menu or on the desktop on your non-root id? Or are you
talking about default entries? The ones on your personal id should never
be affected by an upgrade since it should never touch /home.
I have never used Mandrake, but upgrades of Redhat have always gone very
smoothly.
Gary
------------------------------
From: Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: MCSE :-) (was: Lost Cause Theater)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:38:27 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Martijn Bruns wrote:
[...]
>
> My productivity is just fine, thank you. Your productivity would
> probably be brought to nil, because you probably took five years
> to get your MCSE. MCSE is a course to learn how to move your
> mouse to exactly the right spot and click, nothing more. You
> probably need followup-courses to learn how to use the other
> mouse button, too. I've seen one of the involved books from a
> family member. It's really a joke, ok?
Finally somebody else who agrees with me here. I had a look at some MCSE
"training" Books and thought about what kind of illiterate people they
must be made for. Incredible. Why do they call themselves "engineer"
after that?? There should be a law against that. At least in Europe
engineering is something else.
Cheers
Jens
--
Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!
------------------------------
From: Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 01:30:05 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
> What advance?
>
> It's like the Polish army riding over the hill on horses while the
> Germans had tanks..
Kind of a tasteless comparison, but nonetheless ...
> I'll bet the Germans were howling with laughter, just like Winvocates
> do every time Linux and how it's taking over the market is discussed.
... did the Germans loose the war in the end. Interesting enough that
you brought it up. Micorsoft and Nazi Germany do have a lot more in
common.
Heil Bill!
Jens
--
WYSIWYG is a step backwards. Human labor is used to do that which the
computer
can do better.
Andrew S. Tanenbaum
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:47:15 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>>>>> "Florian" == Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Florian> ... the communist theory proclaims that once the revolution
> Florian> has taken place, the state will slowly die. (IIRC,
> Florian> according to the theory, the state is an artificial
> Florian> construct created in order to be able to exploiting the
> Florian> masses in a more efficient manner, anyway.) Finally, if
> Florian> the state has vanished (and most social structures with
> Florian> it), man has returned to the paradise (called communism).
>
> I'm not sure that I agree with this. There is certainly a
> concept of a revolutionary state. As I said these days this is one of
> the main differences between anarchism and communism. The anarchists
> would say that the forms of state should always be attacked, where as
> the communists would tend to think along the lines of workers
> councils (or soviets as they were in Russia).
The problem with participatory democracy is that a a group of
people always pawns "leaders", and that these leaders then try
to perpetuate their prime position in their offspring. Nobility
wasn't handed down from heaven, it evolved. One only has to look
at the current nobility (our "democratically elected representatives")
to notice how often sprogs follows daddy or mummy into politics.
>
> Florian> The past attempts at a communist revolution were able to
> Florian> establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, at least for
> Florian> a short time, but the state simply didn't die, it was very
> Florian> well alive and tried to tightly control its people. All of
> Florian> a sudden, even a new class appeared. :-(
>
>
> Well this is not true. The Paris commune was massacred from
> outside. In Russia the revolution was precipitous. The country was
> already in a very bad way as a result of the war. Immediately
> following this about half of the proletariat died as a result of
> famine and the war caused by the white army. They may have lost but it
> appears that the white army fatally wounded the dictatorship of the
> proletariat. Even then its worth bearing in mind that even in the
> revolution failed, the regime that it helped to replace was a truly
> terrible one. The revolution may have failed. That does not mean that
> it was not right to try.
Lenin benefitted from a lot of support from Germany. He wouldn't
have been able to reach Russia were it not for their active support
(the more troublemakers in Russia the merrier).
In any case, Lenin's contribution to communism was that because
the proletariat was to stupid to rule itself, it should be ruled
by the intelligentsia. Obviously, this was a huge improvement over
being ruled by inbred nepotist aristocrats ;-). The new regime was
in any case a lot more efficient when it came to eliminating its
opponents. Oh well, tsarism, communism, or capitalism, it's Russia's
fate to always get the worst implementation of a political system.
And always a despot. Poor Russia.
--
Stefaan
--
--PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)--
Ninety-Ninety Rule of Project Schedules:
The first ninety percent of the task takes ninety percent of
the time, and the last ten percent takes the other ninety percent.
------------------------------
From: Peter Ammon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dealing with filesystem volumes
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:04:46 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
void wrote:
>
>
> This answer is a handwave, as far as I'm concerned. Point by point --
> first, there's never any need to see system internal data, until (not
> unless) something breaks and one has to fix it. Then there's no
> substitute for the ability to peer inside. Second, you call the
> identifier "unique", but you don't tell me how it's guaranteed to be
> unique, and since that's a real issue, I wouldn't trust the mechanism
> until I had a real answer.
>
> I don't mean to be hostile, this is just my POV.
Here is my understanding, as a somewhat Mac programmer.
There is a unique identifier for files, called the File ID. This File
ID is not unique across volumes, but it is unique across time. A file
on a volume has a different File ID from any file that has ever existed
on that volume since the volume was last formatted, even if those files
have been deleted. There is an analagous identifier for directories
which is unique across the volume, called the directory ID. There is
also an identifier for volumes which is unique as long as that volume is
mounted, called the volume reference number.
An alias is the best way to save information about a file. I don't know
the exact information the Alias Manager stores, since Apple does not
disclose it, but I do know that an alias record contains at least:
The file ID and its parent directory ID
The four letter creator type, the four letter file type, and the date
the file was created
The server and zone that the file resides upon, if you're on an
AppleTalk network
The creation date (and to some extent the four letter type and creation
codes) provide some verification, since they are unlikely to change.
Alias files and the Alias Manager are both extremely robust. For
example, I could save an alias to a file on my hard disk in my shared
directory, send the alias to anyone else on my AppleTalk network, and
when the user double clicked on the alias, it would attempt to mount my
shared directory (asking for a password if it is required) and open the
file from there.
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/Files/Files-343.html talks about
the strategies the Alias Manager uses to resolve aliases.
If you want to replace one file with another so that all aliases that
pointed to the original file point to the new file, the easiest way
would probably be the toolbox call FSpExchangeFiles, which swaps the
data and resources between the two files but not the File ID, creation
date, etc.. But you'd have to write a program to do this.
-Peter
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why Jeff Szarka Has Zero Credibility When He Claims Problems With Linux
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:07:57 GMT
Not most of the 17 year olds I know. Sounds like you're just a nother
person that will not RTFM then whine, whine, whine....
In article
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 24 Jun 2000 08:23:23 +0800, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry
> Porter) wrote:
>
> >Well that must make my 17 year old son a "expert".
>
> 17 year olds have lots of time to read How-To files.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux Upgrades (Mandrake 7.0 to 7.1)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:30:36 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Hallock) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>When you say it removed menu entries, are you talking about things that
>you had put in the menu or on the desktop on your non-root id? Or are
>you talking about default entries? The ones on your personal id should
>never be affected by an upgrade since it should never touch /home.
>I have never used Mandrake, but upgrades of Redhat have always gone very
>smoothly.
They were there on my non root id, supplied I presumed by the original 7.0
installation. They were gone afterwards. I also find in DrakConf, half the
buttons now do nothing, whereas before they worked.
Pete
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The MEDIA this year!
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:16:22 GMT
I agree, Linux is getting better coverage this year. I also have noticed
that the press is *FINALY* taking a critical look a MS and it's
products.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have to write this.
>
> I've never seen so many big name magazines having editorials
> about Linux before! We must have 6 times the media coverage
> Windows has in the editorials this year. Magazine after
> Magazine, some editor is prodding your company to consider
> the Linux jump this year.
>
> They are taking polls.
> They are toughting the benefits.
> They are drawing networking diagrams of how they did it.
> They are showing the benefits of doing it.
>
> They are ENCOURAGING it THIS YEAR!
>
> I wonder what next year's magazines will be like.
> I mean I've NEVER seen the kind of media coverage
> for Linux that I've seen in the first 6 months of this year!
>
> They are pointing out the few advantages of Windows 2000 and
> their merits as opposed to Linux and saying this year is
> the year to move to Linux in the office.
>
> In polls, I've seen 10 reports showing something like 35% of
> business's polled said they would be starting a Linux movement
> within 2 years. Another 30% said they are considering it within
> the next 5 years. These are polls from corporate America.
> The balance say's they are not sure or won't.
>
> Those are some pretty serious figures. With those kinds of figures
> it seems that 60% of corporate America will be under the Linux
umbrella
> by 2005.
>
> Some of the magazines have multiple editorials and even profile
stories
> about Linux in the office place.
>
> I see these magazines at my office and the offices of others.
> They are targeted at commerical users. They have ad's for
> Windows Back office server, and mini-computers, ATM networks,
> high powered copier/printers, so on and so forth. Not residential
> magazines.
>
> But now that we are on the subject of Computers in the residential
> section, took a trip to the grocery store to view some of the stories
> in the magzines on the shelf. It was a virutal replay of the same
> story.
> Appearently here, you see the big write-ups about Mandrake 7.1.
> About Suse 6.4, Redhat 6.2 all the majors were in there in stories.
>
> The typical residential magazine is quickly becomming a linux variety
> magazine.
>
> There WERE some windows stories in there, about 1/2 of the magazine
was
> filled with Windows stories.
>
> But Linux is rapidly taking over the media's attention.
> And there is apparently some kind of massive effort on the Media's
part
> to have Linux moved in everywhere this YEAR.
>
> My question is WHY this year after all these years?
> Has Kernel 2.2.15 with Gnome 1.2 or Kde 1.0 finally convinced them
> it's ready for everybody's desktop.
>
> Are the media experts finally in alignment with what I've been
> saying for 3 years now?
>
> I'm not against the push. I just wonder why so much right now after
> all this time.
>
> I remember Microsoft's birth in the 80's and I don't remember hardly
> the press pushing then as it's pushing now. The emphasis back then
> was towards touting Apple's and Mac's capabilties. Microsoft was
> mentioned as a back door player at best then.
>
> Something large is happening THIS year I hadn't expected.
> There is some critical mass mandate from the people I hadn't
> forseen going on right now.
>
> Linux is rapidly breaking out and gaining new ground.
> And the media blitz is extraordinary. I've never seen this
> much endorsement for any one OS.
>
> I'm pleased and I wonder why all now...
>
> Charlie
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Joseph C Fineman)
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:43:35 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
>This is my biggest gripe with Marx. With all due respect for him, I
>think this is precisely where he gets it wrong, and now, years after
>his death, he has an enormous stack of historical examples of
>succesful reformers and failed revolutions against him.
He also believed that the industrial working class would be the engine
of social change in the industrial age, whereas, as everyone knows, it
has continued to be the bourgeoisie.
--- Joe Fineman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
||: Lady Luck's maiden name was Miss Fortune. :||
------------------------------
From: "xxx" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:46:46 -0700
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:OlJ45.57180$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Give me a break. Do you guys have meetings and get together and
> say prayers to Linus every night? What is it with you guys and
> propaganda?
So what? Freaks do this kinda crap daily (and lots of every fucking sunday
mornings) to illusions like god, jesus, alah and similar shit. It's all the
same propaganda principle.
At least Linus exists - and created something real.
Myself
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian
Subject: Re: Anti-Human Libertarians Oppose Microsoft Antitrust Action (was: Microsoft
Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 21:57:29 GMT
On 24 Jun 2000 14:29:57 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>MK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>The problem is that Microsoft are not "subsidizing" anyone. They are not
>>>*bribing* the OEMs, they are blackmailing them.
>>
>>How? By threatening to _revoke a discount_?
>
>Which of the vendor depositions explained the threats in
>those terms?
It doesn't matter really.
If "revoking a discount" can be a threat considered mortal
to any business in a given market then that situation has
to be given considerable scrutiny.
It is POWER that defines a legal monopoly after all...
--
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Help setting up a home network.
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:02:35 GMT
On 24 Jun 2000 10:54:05 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>A friend of mine who uses Windoze has just got a new computer to replace
>the one he already had. Both of them have network cards, and the old
>one has a modem. He wants to set up a small network between the two
>computers so that they can both use the same dial-up modem to connect to the
>local Internet Service Provider. Is this easy to do using Mandrake
>(probably 6 or 7)? How would they go about doing it? Would the installation
>process guide you through setting it up?
Complete "network in a box" setups aren't very expensive these
days. You would be much better off setting up a small home LAN
using one of those.
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
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