Dear collective wisdom, I once attempted to compute the amount by which the placement of a fret has to be adjusted to compensate for the increase in tension that arises when you depress it onto the fret.
If I remember my conclusions, correctly, when you press the string down, the proportionate increase in tension, and hence the frequency, varies inversely with the elasticity of the string material. Hence, a steel string (relatively inelastic) will sharpen more that a nylon or gut string (more elastic). It’s much easier to ‘bend’ a note on a steel string guitar than on a classical one. The new CD strings are extremely elastic - you have to stretch them much much more than any of the other types to bring them up to pitch. In fact, I would expect that the fret placement for a CD string would need less adjustment (compared to the theoretical placement) than other types of strings since there will be less pitch distortion due to the increase in tension when you press it down. On lutes we are blessed with ability to adjust to frets to adjust for these pitch distortions. However, when mixing fundamentals and octaves with widely different elasticities it is only to be expected that the internal tuning of the course will go out of kilter. Maybe it could help if the octave is closer in tension to the fundamental. Just my two cents worth Miles > On Feb 28, 2017, at 6:28 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier <fournier...@gmail.com> > wrote: > e > Hello all > So I tested the strings individually ,making sure first that the frets > were adjusted for one string properly... and conclusion is that the > loaded CD nylgut goes flat as you go up the scale on the neck...by the > time I get to the 7th fret I no longer have a perfect fifth. My gut > string stays in tune all the way up, and so does the regular nylgut. > I have a feeling part of the problem is the elasticity of the loaded > nylgut. Mimmo has to investigate this . > Bruno > > 2017-02-28 15:21 GMT-05:00 Bruno Cognyl-Fournier > <[1]fournier...@gmail.com>: > > yes it is the first time I use non wound strings on my basses. I > have > used gut octaves for 30 years and have never had the problem, > at least > not to that extent. I understand the action can be part of the > problem, although. I will test the pitch on the strings taken > individually, however I suspect only one of the two strings is > off > pitch as you go up, and I've never had to match the tension > exactly for > both strings, although it could be part of the problem as well. > Bruno > > 2017-02-28 15:06 GMT-05:00 Dan Winheld <[1][2]dwinh...@lmi.net>: > Bruno- Is this the first time you have ever used non-overspun > basses? That may explain your problem rather than the loaded CD > string specifically. It's a totally different feel, whether the > thick basses are actual gut of one sort or another or a synthetic > that mimics a gut bass string. (I have used plain high twist, > loaded, catlines, Gamut "Pistoys", Gimp, and Savarez KF.) All > fret > more or less the same and can work with their octave strings ; > assuming trueness proper tension, matching tension to the octave, > and of course proper action/neck/fret. Too high action (either nut > or bridge- neck angle) or too thick frets can all affect this- > e.g., > very thick frets- (mostly we fret thicker & single, not the same > as > historically done) -and too much finger pressure will distort the > intonation- obviously the diff. diameter strings will respond > differently. > Dan > On 2/28/2017 10:31 AM, Arto Wikla wrote: > Hi Bruno > No problems on my archlute's 6th and 7th. CDs and NNG octaves. > Arto > On 28/02/17 19:56, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier wrote: > Dear Collective wisdom, > I have been tuning my 5 and 6th course in octaves for years, > with > wound > strings and gut or nylgut. > recently I bought the CD loaded strings from Mimmo and am > slowly > getting used to them. I have thus replaced the fundamental with > CD > loaded, while keeping my octave strings in gut or nylgut, this > on > two > different lutes. > I have noticed that the octaves are horribly out of tune as I > go > up the > neck, especially by the time you get to the 7th fret. I > realize I > rarely have to play up there, but it bothers me. Am trying > to > figure > out what the problem is.. would it be a mismatch of tension? or > would > it be the Loaded CD strings, that as some of you have probably > found to > be very elastic. I have never had this issue with wound > string/gut > combinations. > I will be testing each string individually to check which one > goes out > of tune as you move up the scale, but I suspect it is the > Loaded > string > that is giving me the problem. > any comments? > Bruno > -- > To get on or off this list see list information at > > [2][3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- > References > 1. mailto:[4]dwinh...@lmi.net > 2. [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:fournier...@gmail.com > 2. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > 4. mailto:dwinh...@lmi.net > 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
