Dear Luca,
Yes, I forgot to write, I also own a copy of Schelleâs 1728 instrument,
made by Ivo Magherini. Tuned in d minor, as you mention, without the
high f course, it's an extremely effective instrument which works
fantastic for the German late baroque repertoire. Highly recommend
model for anyone interested in playing this music.
Best,
Magnus
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Den söndag, augusti 18, 2019, 6:00 em, skrev Luca Manassero
<l...@manassero.net>:
Dear Magnus,
thank you for all these interesting points. Personally, I fully
agree (as you may have noticed from my remark about all these
theorbos
showing 8 fretted single courses...)
I think I saw the seven course Koch theorbo in Berlin, being now
nearly
ein Berliner, I went more than a couple of times to that small, but
interesting museum. On the other side the Schelle theorbo has been
built in 1728, most probably then tuned in D therefore with the first
course tuned in d. Focused on a completely different repertoire I can
more easily understand it would have seven fretted courses: then
you'll
a fretted G and a fretted F, nicely offering you a G# and an F# on
the
first fret...
It's also a foldeable theorbo, which makes it a really noticeable
instrument, by the way.
I think I remember another seven course theorbo in Paris at the Cité
de
la Musique, but I do not have the catalogue with me, so couldn't
check
whether and why I remember it.
If the 8 course "vague" started with Franciolini, that's a really
nice
hint, David!
All the best,
Luca
---- Attivato dom, 18 ago 2019 08:59:25 +0200 magnus andersson
<[2]maan7...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> ha scritto ----
Dear Luca, dear David, dear Howard,
thanks for the infos!
It is indeed interesting- checking the lautenweltadressbuch database,
entering "G" as type and looking for instruments with more than, say,
80 cm long petit jeu, I could only find the Berlin instrument by Koch
and the Schelle in Nuremberg to have more than 6 courses on the
fingerboard.
To my knowledge:
there is zero extant solo (French/Italian) music written for a
theorbo
with more than 6 courses on the fingerboard- ranging from Kapsperger
to
Robert de Visà �à �e.
All extant theorbo continuo (Italian and French) tutors- with the
noteable exception of Francois Campion- use instruments with 6
courses
on the fingerboard.
The iconographic surviving material of plausible theorboes shows a
dominance of 6 single fretboard stringed instruments in the 17th
century.
On a personal note- as a modern player- I find it much more important
that I have an instrument which works well for the main bulk of the
repertoire, i.e. the 17th century, than having a short F and G to fit
those low chromatic F sharps / G sharps in.
For the 18th century, as it is much more accompanied with addition of
a
bowed instrument (at least it, imo, ought to be more than the music
of
the early 17th century ), I feel happy to leave those few notes out
or
play them at a higher octave.
It is not to be taken lightly, the feeling of playing Monteverdi in
big
spaces on a big theorbo with the long strings commencing from the 7th
and downwards. The instrument tends to do most of the work itself
then!
Best,
Magnus
On Saturday, August 17, 2019, 10:25:28 PM GMT+2, David Van Edwards
<[1][3]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote:
Dear Luca,
I have the original string lengths down as 823
and 1677. Indeed it is odd how many theorbos
there are with 8 courses on the fingerboard, it
seems to have been a fashion started by that
well-known authority Leopoldo Franciolini.
Best wishes,
David
At 20:29 +0200 17/8/19, Luca Manassero wrote:
> Dear David,
> thank you!!
> The two pictures are finally big enough to be understandable.
> I was also curious about the original string lengths, if you
happen to
> know them.
> By the way, if all chitarroni I see in museums had 6 single or
double
> courses (I think I remember one with seven fretted courses at the
Cità � à �
> del la Musique in Paris, but I'm not sure thou), WHY ON EARTH do I
see
> almost all chitarroni with 8x1 fretted strings??
> All the best,
> Luca (who really doesn't want to start ANY flame on this
subject...)
> ---- Attivato sab, 17 ago 2019 20:21:21 +0200 David Van Edwards
> <[1][2][4]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> ha scritto ----
>
> Dear Luca,
> I forgot to add: is there any other info you'd like? I have a few
> more photos. It is indeed on display in Rome at the Museo
Nazionale
> degli Strumenti Musicali, and the catalogue number is 976. Luisa
> Cervelli: La Galleria Armonica, Catalogo del Museo degli strumenti
> musicali di Roma, Roma 1994, pp. 297-299 from where I got my
photos.
> Best wishes,
> David
> At 18:34 +0200 17/8/19, Luca Manassero wrote:
> > Dear common wisdom,
> > seven years ago I had the opportunity to buy a theorbo from a
German
> > friend: it had been built by Hendrik Hasenfuss in 1993 and has a
very
> > nice bowl made of 35 ribs of yew.
> > Looking for the model, I think I came to a theorbo built by
Pietro
> > Raillich in Padova, possibly around 1655 (strung as 6x1, 8x2).
The
> > original seems to be on display in Rome at the Museo Nazionale
degli
> > Strumenti Musicali, where it is (erroneously?) indicated as
being
> built
> > in 1702, which sounds odd to me, as of the nearly 47 years
Pietro
> > Raillich spent in Padova, that is the year of his death...
> > The only picture displayed on Museum's site is so small to be
almost
> > unreadable.
> > Does anybody have readable pictures of the 1655 instrument
and/or
> some
> > more infos? Mine measures 82.5cm and 167cm, which would match
the
> > Raillich's model.
> > Thank you in advance,
> > Luca
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >To get on or off this list see list information at
> >[1][2][3][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> --
> The Smokehouse,
> 6 Whitwell Road,
> Norwich, NR1 4HB
> England.
> Telephone: [6]+ 44 (0)1603 629899
> Website: [2][3][4][7]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
>
> --
>
>References
>
> 1. [4][5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 2. [5][6][9]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
The Smokehouse,
6 Whitwell Road,
Norwich, NR1 4HB
England.
Telephone: [10]+ 44 (0)1603 629899
Website: [6][7][11]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk
--
References
1. mailto:[8][12]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
2. [9][13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
3. [10][14]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
4. [11][15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
5. [12][16]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
6. [13][17]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1. mailto:[18]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
2. mailto:[19]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
3. [20]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
4. [21]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
5. [22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. [23]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
7. [24]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
8. mailto:[25]da...@vanedwards.co.uk
9. [26]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
10. [27]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
11. [28]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
12. [29]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
13. [30]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
--
References
1. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
2. mailto:maan7...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
3. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
4. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. tel:+ 44 1603 629899
7. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
10. tel:+ 44 1603 629899
11. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
12. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
14. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
16. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
17. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
18. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
19. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
20. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
21. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
23. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
24. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
25. mailto:da...@vanedwards.co.uk
26. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
27. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
28. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
29. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
30. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/
