[apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse?
Hello Rye, I am not very expert in this, as I don't use the system, so hopefully somebody else can add more. Regarding the ice and icicles, these would not necessarily mean you had a problem, as long as there was a coating of unfrozen water on them at all times. This would prevent the ice from dropping below freezing point. The fact that the water turned off could be a problem though, as then there would have been no more unfrozen water, and the ice (and buds encased therein) would drop to the ambient temperature. 4gph sprinklers might not be adequate I suspect, or would not protect against a more severe frost (it depends too on how close they are spaced). When I looked into getting frost-protection irrigation for my orchards, the water use would have been many times (perhaps 6 or 8 times from memory) what I would have needed for soil mositure deficit irrigation only. I am afriad that I can't shed light on what a good rate would be, but I bet someone else here can. The good news is I would be very surprised if your trees were damaged by the ice. Con Traas Ireland From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Rye Hefley Sent: Sun 02/02/2014 17:01 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse? Hello, So last night there was a forecast for 29° for early this morning. Frost NOT in the forecast. So I decided the forecast could change to frost while I was sleeping or the forecasters could miss it so I scheduled the sprinklers. This was my first attempt at frost protection as this is the first producing year for the orchard. First concern: I set the time too short and the sprinklers turned off at 6:30 (worst possible time). Don't ask me what I was thinking when came up with the duration, though I have degree in math, I don't have one in arithmetic. So it was off for an hour before I discovered it and turned it back on. Second concern: using 4 gallon/hour micro sprinklers that produce a thick mist, when I went out there at 7:30 the trees (flowers, leaves, wood, set fruit) were encased in 1/4 ice and icicles. So I think maybe the 4GPH nozzles deliver too little water for frost protection and just made it worse. Also being off for the worse possible hour made it worser still. What would be your assessment on the damage I did this year? (Fortunately only one variety that I care much about. The others haven't bloomed yet so no water on those.) Will the trees survive the ice? Will the fruit that already set be OK? Kiss the flowers goodbye? Will the new buds make it? If 4GPH is not sufficient, in the future what would be a better delivery rate. (Assuming I could avoid the arithmetic error from now on.) Thanks for your insights. Rye Hefley So Cal ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop winmail.dat___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Stripping Leaders on apple
Hi Ellen. Nice video Win. In Ireland we have used it in winter also, but it is hard work (rough on the hands), so limited to shoots produced in the last season. Gives less grow-back than pruning I believe. Probably less axillary buds left, and maybe less young tissue to produce adventitious buds? Con Traas Ellen, we use it most for suckers and stiping leaders in June. When they are pulled off they do not grow back. Here is a You tube video of striping leaders on young apple. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddP7cbCiLR4 Best, Win On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Ellen mcdo...@gwi.net wrote: Does anyone have experience pruning by ripping branches, as opposed to clipping or lopping? Just read about the Wafler's using this method (American FruitGrower, Feb. 2014.). We've always done a bit of it, especially upright shoots when checking the orchard for other things (i.e. without pruning tools at hand.) Just wondered if there have been any long-term deleterious effects ? It's obvious that upper body strength plays into the equation, but is there a limit on the size of branch that is removed by ripping? -- Ellen McAdam McDougal Orchards LLc 201 Hanson Ridge Road Springvale, ME 04083 207-324-5054 www.mcdougalorchards.com http://www.mcdougalorchards.com/ ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size
Hello Vincent, Did you control for tree size, by means of, for instance, calculating yield per trunk cross sectional area. If you did not, then your bigger trees, which by definition became bigger because they were more vigorous, might be expected to carry larger fruits (even if Total fruits per tree is greater (but not too much greater)), by virtue of their vigorous nature. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Vincent Philion Sent: Mon 13/01/2014 17:12 To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size Hello, I'm analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I'm hoping someone can comment and make sense of this: For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting late summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and weight), harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I was looking at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size (weight/number) was related to Total fruits per tree... Nothing strange, until I realized harvested fruit size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As if the fruit dropping left more energy for the remaining fruits to grow? I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more total fruit, not the other way around. I'm not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)? Maybe this is normal? Any comment welcome! Vincent http://www.irda.qc.ca/assets/client/img/logo.png Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste Phytopathologiste pomiculture Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment www.irda.qc.ca http://www.irda.qc.ca/ Centre de recherche 335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7 vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350 Cellulaire: 514-623-8275 Skype: VENTURIA Télécopie: 450 653-1927 Verger expérimental 330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6 Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375 Local pesticide: 450-653-7608 Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien: Laboratoire https://plus.google.com/113874173074370918274/about?gl=CAhl=fr-CA Verger https://www.google.ca/maps/preview#!q=verger+irdadata=!4m15!2m14!1m13!1s0x4cc9016b3e604b3d:0x9e4816f2e6bea640!3m8!1m3!1d212357!2d-71.3416925!3d46.8563685!3m2!1i1324!2i934!4f13.1!4m2!3d45.543389!4d-73.341551 Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri : http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com/ Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either zero inflated Poisson, or zero inflated negative binomial. Anything but Normal. Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être faites dans un domaine très étroit. ~ Niels Bohr C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison... ~ Coluche To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the experiment died of. ~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher The plural of anecdote is not data. ~ Roger Brinner The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data. ~ John Tukey Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. ~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra) There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics. ~ Mark Twain or Disraeli Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible. ~ Frank Zappa If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else. ~ Yogi Berra You can see a lot just by looking. ~ Yogi Berra Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992. Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent aisément. ~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage ~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux Keep your stick on the ice ~ The Red Green show Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur. ~ Stéphane Laporte Audi alteram partem Qui potest capere capiat AVIS DE CONFIDENTIALITÉ Ce message peut contenir de l'information de nature privilégiée et confidentielle. Si vous n'êtes pas le destinataire visé ou croyez l'avoir reçu par erreur, nous vous saurions gré d'en aviser l'émetteur. Si ce message vous a été transmis par erreur, veuillez le détruire sans en communiquer le contenu à d'autres personnes ou le reproduire
Re: [apple-crop] record yields
Hello all, A very interesting topic. Around here our record yields are about half of what you are reporting. However, we too can go further I think. Quality is important for returns also though. I remember seeing research from Holland quite a few years ago, for Holland, which showed little quality change (as measured by soluble solids) when yields of Jonagold went to about 65 metric tons per hectare. From there to 85 metric tons, as yield increased, soluble solids dropped. It would indicate that for that particular system, climate, variety etc., some sort of plateau was being reached. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland. From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Tom Auvil Sent: 21 November 2013 15:07 To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] record yields World record yield? Not certain. Do know that the yield benchmarks are moving up in the Northwest. Some growers now manage Gala for an average yield of 100 MT/Ha, and have a target benchmark of 130 MT/Ha. In the 2012 crop many blocks of all different varieties approached the 100 MT/Ha expected yield. At the WSU fruit school in 2008, the standard yield in the economic presentations were 50 MT/Ha with a target of 70 MT/ Ha. The highest sustained yield discussed in the Northwest has been Granny Smith on Mark rootstock at 140 MT/Ha or ~140 bins with 900 pounds of fruit per bin. The rootstock influences the spur density down the limbs, so Mark has been the standard for productivity. The replant tolerant Geneva rootstocks such as G.41, G.935, G.214, G.210, G.30 have the crop density equal to or better than Mark. The discussion of yield is evolving from total yield to yield of fruit with high and consistent consumer acceptance. Highly productive varieties such as Fuji and HoneyCrisp may need to implement rigorous crop load management by counting spurs at pruning, flowers at bloom and fruit in June to cap yields at 80 bins or less, in consistent, full canopy blocks. The goal is to have crisp, juicy, great flavor fruit every bite. Tom and Rose Auvil PO Box 408 Orondo, WA 98843 tau...@nwi.net From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of dbals...@mnsi.net Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:28 PM To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock Different subject ... does anyone know what the current world record for apple production /acre is . The last record I have ever heard quoted was a7 year old block of Granny smith apples from New Zealand around 130 metric tonne per hectare in the early 1990's.does anyone know where a person might source such info or r what the current record might be ? Thanks Doug Doug and Leslie 519-738-4819 The Fruit Wagon - Quality Fruit and Flowers in Season www.thefruitwagon.com From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [ mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:19 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock I've read that V1 is resistant to fire blight. See: http://www.plant.uoguelph.ca/treefruit/outreach/files/PerformanceandAvai labilityoftheVinelandAppleRootstocks-Dec2006.pdf On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Deborah I. Breth d...@cornell.edu wrote: Is V1 resistant or susceptible to fire blight? Deborah I. Breth Cornell Cooperative Extension - Lake Ontario Fruit Program Team Leader and IPM Specialist in Tree Fruit and Berries 12690 Rt. 31 Albion, NY 14411 phone: 585.798.4265 x 36 tel:585.798.4265%20x%2036 mobile: 585.747.6039 fax: 585.798.5191 email: d...@cornell.edu LOF website http://www.fruit.cornell.edu/lof From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Huffman, Leslie (OMAFRA) Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:02 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Jon Clements Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock I agree with Jon, V1 definitely has more vigour. Leslie Leslie Huffman 519-738-1256 leslie.huff...@ontario.ca mailto:519-738-1256leslie.huff...@ontario.ca From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [ mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas Sent: October-30-13 2:47 PM To: Jon Clements; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock Thanks Jon, I did order some V1 trees from Cameron yesterday and I'm glad you told me about the spacing, as I was heading for 4 feet. I''ll plant 5x12 and give you a report as the next few seasons go by. Hugh On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jon Clements jon.cleme...@umass.edu wrote: Hugh, see this for a start: http://www.extension.org/pages/60856/apple-rootstock-info:-v1#.UnFOtJRga 9U Several growers here in Massachusetts
[apple-crop] Rotten to the Core: What pick-your-own apple orchards tell us about the American economy.
Hi Jon and friends, I get the feeling the article or author is a bit mixed up, and does not know exactly what point is the main one. However, there is no doubt that all things American make their way across to this side of the pond sooner or later, and demand for U-pick apples (or Pick Your Own as we call it here) is much greater than ever before, so in that way we are following in your footsteps. Not everyone that comes to pick is a yuppy though, and mostly it is just nice innocent entertainment for families with younger children. Personally I think that if we as growers engage with the children, these people will have happy memories of apples when they grow older, and hopefully better eating habits than they would otherwise have. On the issue of cost, I think it is probably more expensive to organise for people to come and do U-pick than simply to go out with your orchard crew and pick the apples yourself. Con Traas ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] Rotten to the Core: What pick-your-own apple orchards tell us about the American economy.
Hello Hugh, I would say it is worth the hassle, if the price you get is good. Making sure the apples are really ripe so they come off easily lessens the damage. Perhaps waiting until the trees are a little more sturdy would be an option. In our own case we over-pick about 10 days earlier, and then do the U-pick in the apples we have left behind. Con I'm going to reply to this, mainly to see if it works, as I'm new on here. I have a question for anyone with a u-pick orchard. Do the kids do a lot damage to the trees and fruit, making heavy supervision necessary? I just planted a small high density orchard of about an acre and a half. Would a small u-pick operation be worth the hassles? Thanks for any input, Hugh ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] sulfur fungicides and beneficials
Hello Doug, I think it is commonly accepted that when you spray sulphur on a routine basis, mites will not quickly pose a problem, because as well as suppressing the predatory mites, the sulphur also suppresses the pest mite species. However, it is when you stop using the sulphur (perhaps next season?) that the pest mite species can multiply quickly in the absence of the predatory mites. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland Twitter: @theapplefarmer From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Balsillie Sent: 31 May 2012 13:11 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] sulfur fungicides and beneficials Anyone have experience with switching to sulfur for apple powdery mildew? Trying to keep costs down since we lost our crop, and having too much mildew show up. Sulfur is cheaper than the other mildew fungicides, but how quickly will we get into mite problems, if sulfur kills my beneficials? Doug Doug and Leslie Balsillie 793 County Road 50 East, R. R. 1 Harrow, Ontario N0R 1G0 519-738-4819 Home of The Fruit Wagon - Quality Fruit and Flowers in Season www.thefruitwagon.com image003.gifimage004.gif___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
[apple-crop] Damaging freeze hits the Midwest U.S.
Hello all, It is often amazing to see similar things happening in parts of the United States and Europe at the same time. As was the case with parts of the US, those of us in Ireland and Britain had a very early spring, brought about by very warm weather (by our standards) in March. The lovely spell of weather, while welcomed by the public, was always of concern to fruit growers, for fear of what might follow it. Thus far, the weather since the nice spell in March has been miserable, giving poor pollinating conditions, and there have been sub-freezing temperatures at night, but in general not quite cold enough to damage crop potential. On our own farm we were a little unfortunate, as on Saturday night last we had a more severe frost than recorded on other fruit farms in Ireland, and we suffered damage that will diminish the crop volume. Probably the worst crop hit was raspberry, where it is very difficult to find undamaged flowers, which though still closed, are blackened inside. On the other hand, plums, which are already setting, having commenced flowering about a month ago, seem unaffected, assuming that the set will be good enough, given the poor weather at flowering, which meant not many pollinating insects were at work. For apples, damage seems to vary with variety and location. Lower pockets on the farm are much more adversely affected, with the likelihood that the recorded minus 2.1 degrees at the weather station was an underestimate (or should I say overestimate) of the temperature in the cooler hollows. Worst affected varieties are Karmijn de Sonnaville and Bramley's Seedling, which I know both from assessing the damage and previous history, are rather susceptible. In the cooler areas Jonagold and Jonagored as well as Topaz are showing some damage, but still have the capacity for reasonable crops if set is good. In these same cooler spots, Elstar and clones show least damage, being a little later flowering, and also, I believe, a little more tolerant. Yesterday (the day after the frost) we made an emergency application of Regalis, which you in the US call Apogee, with the hope of getting maximum set in the most frost-affected areas. Other parts of the farm will probably get some later in the season, just for growth control. One interesting phenomenon that I await with interest is the formation of new flowers in the Bramley's Seedling. This is something that I have seen happening in Bramley's in frosty years in the past, but never in any of the other 60 varieties I grow. These flower buds form on the tips of new emerging shoots in response to frost, especially on younger wood, rather than on older fruiting spurs. Typically each bud has about 2 flowers, which go on to open and flower about two weeks later than the main blossom, but which, despite the absence of pollen from other varieties, seem to set well. They typically result in smaller fruit, obviously maturing later. In years of a complete wipe-out of blossom they are a welcome feature, but in years when they are stimulated, but survival of the main blossom is adequate for a crop, they are a nuisance, and are sometimes removed by growers. This year, I think I will be glad to see them. With best wishes from what is a wet and cold Ireland this morning, Con Traas The Apple Farm www.theapplefarm.com ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] spray program software
Because the chemtable in not password protected, you may be able to amend tracApple for your own situation. I certainly did, and find it very good. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir, Ireland. From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nickerson, Garth (DAAF/MAAP) Sent: 01 March 2012 00:38 To: 'dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com'; Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] spray program software Anyone know of a Canadian version of this software or a similar product? Thanks, Garth Garth Nickerson, P.Ag. / agr. Crop Development Specialist Nursery/Tree Fruits Spécialiste du développement des cultures Pépinières/arbes fruitieres Agriculture, Aquaculture and Fisheries / Agriculture, Aquaculture et Pêches P.O. Box 6000 Fredericton, New Brunswick / Nouveau-Brunswick E3B 5H1 Canada Tel/Tél: 506-453-2108 Fax/Tél: 506-453-7978 Cell: 506-461-9628 email/courriel: garth.nicker...@gnb.ca Website: http://www.gnb.ca/0027/Index.htm From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:15 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] spray program software ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
[apple-crop] Pommier, Le Mur Fruiter
Hello all, Point 5 is in my mind probably the most vital to get right. If this does not work the system will not work. Quote: 5) This shearing shortly before solstice allows for short extension of growth. As solstice is passed, days begin to become shorter. As days become shorter, tree is keyed to shift from vegetative growth to reproductive, and so extension growth is limited and conversion of growth to fruiting bud initiation begins. 5/ yes that's the explanation from Louis Lorette who did a theorization of summer pruning in early 20th. In our case I am afraid that we did a more empirical work, designing trials to find the best pruning date in our conditions. The 10 leaves date, seems to work for France. I have been looking at summer pruning for many years, and in our part of the World, a 10 leaves point of pruning, or just around June 21st, does not work. In fact, for most varieties, early August, perhaps even the second week of August, is the appropriate time. The date at which a shoot can be headed with reasonable expectation of forming a fruit bud on resultant brindle seems to depend on crop load, soil nutrition and soil type (which can vary across a field or orchard), water availability, apple variety, use of gibberellin inhibitor (like prohexadione calcium) and then something like an Indian Summer (an unusually warm spell in mid August) can cause re-growth of buds which you would expect to set fruit buds, resulting in turn in no shoot tip fruit buds. What I am attempting to put across is that using mechanical pruning with this system is not without difficulty, and what may work well in France may not work so well elsewhere. A most interesting conversation; many thanks. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
[apple-crop] Tree height v. row spacing
Hello all, What everyone thus far has said is relevant. Jon's rule-of-thumb of 0.9 x distance from row centre to row centre is good, but not a complete answer. To get to the bottom of this very difficult question requires information like light intensity (the more intensity the better the canopy penetration), latitude (determines average angle of incident light, and consequently shading effects) and proposed width of actual tree row from edge to edge, to name just three factors. Also, it should be borne in mind that in reality most growers do not wish to achieve maximum yield, but rather a balance between maximum quality and yield, and after a certain point, I have no doubt that raising yield further results in lower quality (in terms of soluble solids/sugars in the fruit, in terms of fruit size, and to an extent, fruit colour). Unfortunately I do not have a formula to offer. However, I have been in orchards in different parts of the World, and can say with certainty that one size does not fit all. In my own experience, I have never seen light intensity that matched that in the apple growing area around Hawkes Bay in New Zealand. There I saw orchards with what I would have considered trees which would not allow for enough light penetration. But the light intensity was such that it did penetrate, and what would usually be unproductive inner parts of the tree had apples and leaves, and indeed I was told by my host that the particular orchard of Granny Smith had yielded 150 tons per ha in the past, and I could well believe it. When I visited northern Italy, I saw the most perfect trees trained to a fruit wall, and they must have been perfect 0.9's; just like Jon is suggesting. It was self-evident that light would get to all parts of the canopy, that there would be no unproductive inner canopy due to the narrowness of the tree hedge, and that the balance of yield and quality would be excellent. Having looked at a similar tree wall of about 3.5 metres tall in Belgium close to harvest time, I was disappointed to note that the apples growing on the lowest 50 cm of the wall were poorly coloured and only of juicing quality. In time, this part of the canopy would be lost due to less than optimum light penetration, and that told be that the tree rows were 50cm taller than ideal, as the top 50cm was shading the bottom 50cm. Put simply, in my opinion, for that orchard in Belgium, the 2.5 metres of productive wall should start at 50 cm above the ground, and finish at 3 metres tall; not at 3.5m. In my own orchard in Ireland at more than 52 degrees N, I can only manage a productive canopy of about 2 to 2.2 metres tall (when rows are 3.25 to 3.5 metres apart). If I go taller, then shading of bases becomes a problem again. One of my favourite pastimes is to go into the orchard on a sunny day (we get more cloudy days than sunny ones), and look at where the shadows fall. I know I am correct in my assessment of maximum height for the quality I want to grow, given the light intensity I have to work with. So Art, it is ultimately up to you; you should have an idea of your own situation, and the quality of fruit you want to grow. Experience may in time tell you that you pushed a bit too far, or that you did not go tall enough. I would not recommend deciding your tree height and then your row centres. I would prefer to decide on row centres and thickness of the canopy (to suit machinery, operations etc.) and then work out how high the trees should be allowed to grow. Have fun. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
RE: Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder
Hello Art, Just now getting to reply to this email. Mangers cider is made at a plant about 6 miles from where I live. In Ireland it is known as Bulmers, but everywhere else in the World it is sold as Magners, as the Bulmers name is owned internationally by the HP Bulmer company in England, whereas the Irish Bulmers is made by CC. I understand annual production is in the region of 80 million litres, a large proportion of which is consumed in Ireland, where this is the dominant cider in the market, holding about 80% I understand. Each year in the region of 25 to 30,000 tons of apples are bought from Irish growers to make the juice for this cider. If there are not enough apples in Ireland, imports are sometimes used, and this was especially true a number of years ago when Magners had a very strong sales spike in the UK, due mainly to very good advertising, which lifted the entire cider market as well as their own brand. As you can guess, 30,000 tons is not enough apples to make 80 million litres, and in reality about one third of what is in each can or bottle is directly from fresh apples. The rest is made up from apple juice concentrate, syrup, and water. The main apples used are Bramley's Seedling, Dabinette and other cider varieties, plus whatever other cull apples are available. As industrial ciders go, I would guess that Magners would be very unusual in using fresh apple juice in their fermentations, as most other manufacturers work off concentrate, due to the large saving in storage space in taking the latter route. In terms of taste, Magners is very much on the sweetened end of the spectrum, but that seems to be what a lot of consumers want, so who can blame them. It certainly is not an artisan product, but rather something made by a large-scale manufacturer, at least by Irish standards. However, if you are drinking it, perhaps one or two drops in each pint come from my apples, and I am grateful for you custom. Con Traas From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly Sent: 06 December 2010 15:58 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder Good review of CCD. We should all pause and consider every time we add a product to the spray tank. On a side note I was waiting for a sandwich in a shop in Hollis NH and was perusing the cooler where they have some very interesting imported beer and saw and purchased an Irish cider known as Magners Oringinal. Even my wife enjoyed it and she is not one for much beyond wine. What can Con tell us abut it? Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME 2010/12/2 Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.ie http://www.lab-times.org/editorial/e_173.html Con Traas, Life Science Dept., University of Limerick. Office SR2-009 Ph. 061 202905 M. 086 6091998
Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder
http://www.lab-times.org/editorial/e_173.html Con Traas, Life Science Dept., University of Limerick. Office SR2-009 Ph. 061 202905 M. 086 6091998
RE: Apple-Crop: Tree Row volume
Hello Art, I would contend that a well-planned properly filled out orchard of dwarf trees (say from seventh year) has just as many leaves as the majority of orchards with standards. If this were not the case the dwarf orchard would not be able to out-yield the standard orchard in tons of crop per acre, which the dwarf orchard clearly is able to do. I think that TRV is over simplistic and really only useful when considering younger dwarf orchards where the volume has not filled out, or older orchards with missing trees etc., or perhaps badly planned orchards where the space is not filled due to trees being spaced too widely. I would certainly hope that new pesticides are researched on fully filled-out dwarf orchards, and not on trees in their second or third leaf. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly Sent: 07 October 2010 02:55 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Tree Row volume I need to get it off my chest. Sorry everyone. If research on older pesticides was done on standard trees and semi and dwarf trees require less material due to less canopy and newer pesticides were researched on small trees why wouldn't larger trees require more material per acre? Reverse tree row volume if you will. Art Kelly Kelly Orchards Acton, ME
RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates
Hello all, In the light of the scientific doubt cast on this study on a link between organophosphates and ADHD, I recall a much more robust study published in The Lancet about two years ago, linking ADHD with food colourants. To my mind this also dovetails with anecdotal evidence of short-term effects of consumption of certain sweets and carbonated drinks on the behaviour of children suffering with ADHD. However, to my recollection, after a short while, publicity from this study also died down (unfortunately). Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of John Henderson Sent: 19 May 2010 21:07 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: organophosphates A Facebook friend posted with concern the article on OPs. In response I paraphrased Richard's bragging paragraph. The following comment thanked me for the info with the note I wondered why apples were not on the list. So with this limited evidence, I think the positive approach might work -- except it looks like this controversy may quickly be forgotten. John Henderson Sage Hen Farm Lodi, NY On May 18, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Richard Weinzierl wrote: All, Let me confess to being a research and extension person and not a commercial apple or peach grower. I do, however, spend a lot of time working with commercial growers. With that disclaimer, I'll offer a few thoughts. I agree with the sentiments that the recently reported research on OPs and ADHD seems preliminary and somewhat flawed. That said, folks, we've been reducing use of OPs on apples in the US since FQPA in 1996. The regulations have been driven by both scientific and emotional concerns that OPs as residues on foods present more risks than the EPA finds acceptable. Let's admit that there has been an underlying concern out there for some time, and it is not all driven by fanatics or anti-pesticide groups. After we admit that to ourselves . . let's brag on the fact that we have responded to the concerns and the regulations by reducing OP use. Penncap-M is no longer used at all; Lorsban is used only in ways that should result in NO residues on apples or peaches; Guthion is not used on peaches and is nearly gone from our spray programs in apples; and Imidan is used far less than it used to be. We might be wise to spend only a minimum amount of effort criticizing this particular study and instead tout our progress. Such an approach is likely to be more beneficial for marketing and customer relations than any organized dispute of this particular research. I realize that successive rounds of investigations will target newer groups of insecticides, and we'll have to face truths and rumors that result from them as well. For now, energy might be best spent on making our progress very evident to the public. The alternative -- the idea that organic produce is the only answer -- will certainly not meet the needs of the nation's or the world's consumers any time in the foreseeable future. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl, Professor and Extension Entomologist Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 South Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 weinz...@uiuc.edu, Ph. 217-244-2126
RE: Apple-Crop: Dodine and captane fungicides applied during bloom
Hello all, If I remember correctly, the work that I saw showing reduced pollen germination due to captan was done in vitro (in test tube). Having said that, Mancozeb performed much better than Captan in such tests, and if I need to spray for scab during peak flowering, I often opt to use Mancozeb. However, on continental Europe use of Captan during flowering is commonplace. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements Sent: 26 April 2010 17:19 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Dodine and captane fungicides applied during bloom This might be easier for you: http://fruit.umext.umass.edu/pdf/captanfruitnotes94.pdf -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: AI nozzles for airblast sprayers
Hello all, I was really surprised to read Mo's comments on the large variation in applied rates depending only on the material being applied. I get small variations, but not a doubling or halving as outlined. I also spray at 75 to 200 psi, (but usually 120-150psi) and use ai and conventional nozzles, both made by albuz. There are some useful flow charts at: http://www.hypropumps.com/FileAttachments/Spray/en-us/SG_TVI_Rate_Chart_ E.pdf and other general information on TVI nozzles at: http://www.hypropumps.com/en-us/Products/SprayTips/AirBlast/Cone/TVI_Mod el_Detail/TVI_Features.htm I have my sprayer set up with normal (ATR) nozzles directed lower in the canopy and TVI's higher, as I would expect more drift from the upper section. The TVI's are certainly more prone to blocking, and this means being very good about cleaning all filters, but if this is done, problems are not too common. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: degree days and apple bloom prediction
Sorry Bill, Degree days on what degree base? Con In Michigan we have used approximately 284 DD42 from March 1 as the start point for king bloom on Macs. This is in our Michigan State University Fruit Management guide E-154, from a chart originally prepared by Phil Schwallier of MSU. This is based on pre-1990 weather data in the Grand Rapids area of Michigan. In recent years we have been getting more DD before March 1so ignoring what happens before Mar 1 is now becoming problematic. So, I generally add on 25 DD42 to the total and use a target of 310 DD42 from January 1 as the start point for king bloom for Macs.Not sure if this works for your area. 1/2 green is approx 205 DD42 from March 1, or 230 DD42 from January 1 with my fudge factor. Bill Shane
Apple-Crop: Looking for contact
Does anyone know the current address of Dr. Zhiguo Ju? I am interested in contacting him about work using stripped corn oil as an anti-scald treatment on apples. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland.
Apple-Crop: treatments vs genetic traits
Hello Arthur, In an ideal world, you are quite correct that resistant varieties provide more promise, and I am all in favour of using them, either to grow, or in breeding programs. However, in our biological world, the disease-resistant tree is always at a disadvantage compared to the disease organism. This stems purely from the power of numbers. Diseases such as apple scab have much shorter life cycles, and produce many millions of spores in a season. The genetic diversity therein (as well as the ability to mutate) will ultimately result in the loss or resistance in the tree, more or less in proportion to the area planted to that tree (or if the same resistance gene is bred into more than one variety, then the combined area that the resistance gene is planted to), assuming that other conditions favouring the disease are present. Here in Ireland the Bramley's Seedling apple was reputed to be practically resistant to apple scab until about 50 years ago. However, a new strain of scab, well adapted to this tree emerged, and now the variety needs as much treatment as any other susceptible variety. The growing of monocultures of this variety in the past 50 years played a significant part in the emergence of the new strain in my opinion. Prior to that, orchards were small (1 acre at most), and planted with only a few Bramley trees. So, when we find a resistance gene or genes, because there are so few of them it is the duty of good growers to protect them. This will mean as little mono-culture as possible (not our natural disposition), not using the same gene in every new disease-resistant variety (unfortunately both conventional and GM breeders have failed in this one), but also using chemicals before resistance breaks down, to give the disease more than one hurdle to cross to complete its life cycle and breed. Therefore, it is really important that we continue to seek out other controls, biological and chemical. Using them in combination with resistance, existing controls, and really good management can result in successful outcomes over the longer term. However, all we need is a few careless growers not to safeguard the resistance to render all the work done on resistance breeding (and all the money spent) practically worthless. Now I accept that the other trait you mention (cold resistance) is different, and if this can be bred into a plant, then there is no selection pressure to overcome it, so no concerns like those mentioned above would arise. But as usual, we need to assess on a case by case basis, the likely outcomes of our actions. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Harvey Sent: 11 February 2010 22:34 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: treatments vs genetic traits From my limited experience it appears that finding varieties with resistant traits is a more promising way to pursue compared with treatments. It is well known that certain strains of Baldwin are relatively immune to scab---why cannot this genetic trait be worked into other varieties. Also, we have a local seedling here in western Maine which not only resists freezing until the first week of November---and keeps well---but also sheds insect-damaged apples so that only perfect ones mature. Seems like characteristics that would be useful elsewhere. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers, working with the so-called Organic Trade Association. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org
Apple-Crop: Other organic-approved chemicals
Hello Dave and all, Here in Europe potassium bicarbonate is now used as an organically-approved mildew fungicide. It also appears to have some scab activity. I do not use it as my apples tend towards lower calcium, and I do not want to make that worse by adding Potassium, but I wonder if you use it in the US (and elsewhere in the World). We also use potassium phosphite against phytophthora diseases, but I am neither sure of its organic status, nor its efficacy. Con Traas
RE: Apple-Crop: FreezePruf?
Hello all, I'm wondering about the differences between these two products. I note that the freezepruf contains ethylene glycol, which is the active constituent in anti-freeze, but could it have an effect at the concentrations that would end up in the plant tissue? What kind of concentration would end up in the plant tissue anyhow, given that a 2% solution of ethylene glycol is what is being sprayed? Does anyone know of these botanists who developed the product? Did they conduct efficacy trials? How did they decide on the appropriate dose rates etc? Has there been any peer-reviewed research? Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan
Happy New Year to all, I read an interesting piece on Reuters News yesterday. I see that some more US agricultural advisors will be sent to Afghanistan, though I wonder if it is realistic to suggest to farmers there that nuts and apples will give higher returns than opium. I'm sure that I am preaching to the converted here when I suggest that apple growing is hardly a highly profitable venture. Con Traas http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-45331820100112 KABUL (Reuters) - Interrupted by the occasional whirring of military helicopters overhead, the U.S. agriculture chief sipped pomegranate juice with Afghan farmers, who told him not enough international aid was getting through. Wrapping up a three-day visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, Tom Vilsack met the farmers -- representing pomegranate and apple growers -- at an fruit juice export plant in Kabul, part funded by the United States which has made agriculture the biggest non-security priority in the country. Seated outside, the farmers complained of lack of credit facilities -- something Vilsack is looking into -- and problems in the entire farming chain, from acquiring seeds to a lack of refrigeration and getting goods to market during a war. We hear of pledges of funding but we have not seen anything yet, said Haji Ghulam Dastageen, an apple and apricot farmer from Paktia province. We are looking forward to getting assistance from the international community and from the (agriculture) ministry, he added via a translator. Vilsack, who pointed to the U.S.-funded juice factory behind him as proof of U.S. commitment, later announced an additional $20 million in aid to help improve Afghanistan's agriculture ministry deliver services to farmers. After decades of conflict, Afghanistan lacks many of the personnel and knowledge resources needed to deliver much-needed services to its people, more than 80 percent of whom rely on agriculture for wages and sustenance, he said at a news conference announcing the funds. Last year, the United States spent about $300 million on agriculture projects in Afghanistan and projected spending this year is more than $400 million. Vilsack also promised to send more U.S. agricultural advisors. The hope is that funds spent bolstering Afghanistan's agriculture ministry will improve delivery of services to the country's farmers and thus boost confidence in central government and draw support away from the Taliban. FARMER-TO-FARMER A farm owner himself, Vilsack peppered the Afghan farmers with questions from how they got their water to what they needed in terms of credit facilities and packaging to protect goods currently bruised en route to market. The United States and other allies are looking at a range of credit options for farmers in the hope they can wean many from growing opium poppy, which fuels the Taliban insurgency. The goal is to provide up-front funds for wheat but also higher-value products such as table grapes, nuts and apples in the hope they will get better returns than opium. Afghanistan produces nearly all of the world's opium, used to make heroin. We are looking forward to receiving loans ... we also want low interest, said Haji Yaseen, another apple grower from Paktia province. Farmers everywhere want that, laughed Vilsack, a former governor from the U.S. farming state of Iowa. The Obama administration has promised to present a list of credit options to the Afghan agriculture ministry by March. The plan is to offer credit facilities like those given to farmers in the United States, who get low-interest loans. How do you pay for your imports? Would you use a banking system?, Vilsack asked the farmers, who all nodded. When U.S. President Barack Obama announced his new strategy to send in 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, he also promised a civilian surge, including additional agricultural advisors to overhaul an industry devastated by decades of war. President Obama ... understands that the future of your country is on this table, said Vilsack, pointing to a table laden with nuts, apples and pomegranates, many of which he sampled. I look forward to going back to Washington with your messages and to give as much help as we possibly can, Vilsack told the farmers. I can assure you that I'm going to be a consumer of pomegranates from now on. (Editing by Peter Graff and Sanjeev Miglani) (c) Thomson Reuters 2010 All rights reserved
RE: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan
Hello Bill, Hello Bill, I too think that it is fantastic work that is being done. I commend everyone brave enough and good enough to contribute. Growing apples (or other fruits) is a very satisfying occupation, that can bring enormous benefit to local communities through the need for labour, team building, and feeling of well-being in producing something good. Even in the developed world the lure of easy money in drugs is too much for many to resist, so the choice must be all the more difficult in a place like Afghanistan. Con -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker Sent: 13 January 2010 13:43 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan I have a colleague who just returned from Afganistan. He was very happy with his service there. He feels he's contributing to the effort to build a stable society. They may make more money with drug crops but they have neigbors who need to eat. Bill Happy New Year to all, I read an interesting piece on Reuters News yesterday. I see that some more US agricultural advisors will be sent to Afghanistan, though I wonder if it is realistic to suggest to farmers there that nuts and apples will give higher returns than opium. I'm sure that I am preaching to the converted here when I suggest that apple growing is hardly a highly profitable venture. Con Traas http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-45331820100112 KABUL (Reuters) - Interrupted by the occasional whirring of military helicopters overhead, the U.S. agriculture chief sipped pomegranate juice with Afghan farmers, who told him not enough international aid was getting through. Wrapping up a three-day visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, Tom Vilsack met the farmers -- representing pomegranate and apple growers -- at an fruit juice export plant in Kabul, part funded by the United States which has made agriculture the biggest non-security priority in the country. Seated outside, the farmers complained of lack of credit facilities -- something Vilsack is looking into -- and problems in the entire farming chain, from acquiring seeds to a lack of refrigeration and getting goods to market during a war. We hear of pledges of funding but we have not seen anything yet, said Haji Ghulam Dastageen, an apple and apricot farmer from Paktia province. We are looking forward to getting assistance from the international community and from the (agriculture) ministry, he added via a translator. Vilsack, who pointed to the U.S.-funded juice factory behind him as proof of U.S. commitment, later announced an additional $20 million in aid to help improve Afghanistan's agriculture ministry deliver services to farmers. After decades of conflict, Afghanistan lacks many of the personnel and knowledge resources needed to deliver much-needed services to its people, more than 80 percent of whom rely on agriculture for wages and sustenance, he said at a news conference announcing the funds. Last year, the United States spent about $300 million on agriculture projects in Afghanistan and projected spending this year is more than $400 million. Vilsack also promised to send more U.S. agricultural advisors. The hope is that funds spent bolstering Afghanistan's agriculture ministry will improve delivery of services to the country's farmers and thus boost confidence in central government and draw support away from the Taliban. FARMER-TO-FARMER A farm owner himself, Vilsack peppered the Afghan farmers with questions from how they got their water to what they needed in terms of credit facilities and packaging to protect goods currently bruised en route to market. The United States and other allies are looking at a range of credit options for farmers in the hope they can wean many from growing opium poppy, which fuels the Taliban insurgency. The goal is to provide up-front funds for wheat but also higher-value products such as table grapes, nuts and apples in the hope they will get better returns than opium. Afghanistan produces nearly all of the world's opium, used to make heroin. We are looking forward to receiving loans ... we also want low interest, said Haji Yaseen, another apple grower from Paktia province. Farmers everywhere want that, laughed Vilsack, a former governor from the U.S. farming state of Iowa. The Obama administration has promised to present a list of credit options to the Afghan agriculture ministry by March. The plan is to offer credit facilities like those given to farmers in the United States, who get low-interest loans. How do you pay for your imports? Would you use a banking system?, Vilsack asked the farmers, who all nodded. When U.S.
RE: Apple-Crop: Club varieties
Hello all,. An interesting article, and a really interesting set of comments made by growers. I am a great believer in diversity and choice. But I can also see that when more then 20 club varieties become available, that they will be seriously competing with each-other for shelf space. In such a situation, while internal competition between the growers of a particular variety may not be a problem in depressing prices, external competition, to actually get the shelf space, may have the same price-depressing effect. The key, as some commentators have already said, is to produce fruit with excellent eating qualities. Of course some varieties will be higher acid, some sweeter, some more aromatic, some with a more interesting colour, but if they taste well they will be eaten quickly, and people will be back for more all the sooner. People really want to eat apples; they know how good they are for general health, but delivering poor quality is an invitation for the public to choose bananas or oranges instead. Mind you, the club system has something to offer here, as they set (and hopefully enforce) standards for the apples that bear their brand. At the moment in Ireland, at least 50% of the apple wall in Marks and Spencer (one of the high-end multiples) is dedicated to Pink Lady. Not a single Pink Lady is grown in Ireland (for climatic reasons), and perhaps only 5% of the apple display is given for Irish apples. Last week at a tasting I was conducting, people who tried the Irish apple (Elstar clone Elswout) were very impressed and bought it. The sales of Irish apples in those shops were ten times their normal volume during those days, but obviously, I can't give a sample to every person in Ireland. This proves the power of the Pink Lady club. People tried that apple once, probably in response to a poor experience with whatever they were eating before (most likely a Gala, Braeburn or Fuji), and have continued to buy due to consistency. The fruit display did not start with 50% Pink Lady. Pink Lady had to muscle its way in, but the more people bought them, the larger their proportion of the display area became. Some of those Pink Lady apples were selling at a euro each (more than one US dollar), which tells you just how much people will pay for a good apple. So what does this say about other retail channels? To my mind, people buy apples at the farmers market, not primarily because they can meet the farmer, but because they can get the quality they want. Such quality can also be delivered via supermarkets, but most fail to deliver it with a reliable consistency. I can only assume that this is at least partly because there is always a supermarket buyer seeking a cheaper option, and always a wholesaler or grower who has something that the need to sell fast, at whatever price they can get. If the clubs manage to remove this dynamic from the market, it will be good for everyone. However, they will still end up competing with each other to get onto the shelf in the first place. But at least the consumer should get better quality. Wishing you all best wishes for the turn of the season, Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir, Ireland
Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic
Excellent Dave and Chris, Now this discussion is getting somewhere. Here in Ireland it is said that for every calorie that gets to the consumers mouth, 9 calories of fossil fuel are used to generate that calorie. With fossil fuels as a non-sustainable resource (due to depleting reserves as well as pollution problems), that will have to change. I run a conventional orchard. It yields about 20 tons of apples per acre per year. Rainfall here is high, so irrigation is not really necessary. But fungicides are vital. Last year we commenced a project to measure the life-cycle CO2 of the orchards. I had imagined that with all the biomass the apple tree produces over its lifetime (leaves, roots, wood, substantial yield of fruit, increase in soil organic matter content etc.), that my orchard would take in a lot more CO2 than I use in producing the fruits (tractor fuel, fertiliser, cold stores, shipping, packaging, fungicides, herbicides etc.) While the project is not finished, I can report that my orchard is just about carbon neutral, if I leave out the shipping CO2. Not half as good as I expected. And not many crops would fare as well as tree fruits. However, organic apples would not fare any better here, because many of the CO2 inputs would still apply, and yields and biomass increase would be substantially lower. That's why I actually think that your president's garden is a great idea and a great example. If people can grow food outside their back door (either organic or not), then many of the CO2 inputs are virtually eliminated. If you use home-made compost for fertiliser in your garden then the problem of moving organic matter with relatively low nutrient content is also overcome. Unfortunately, because of our economic system, growing your own is bad. If you grow your own vegetables instead of buying, the Gross Domestic Output of the country falls. So it's bad for the economy. On the other hand, if your crash your car, that's good for the economy, as money must change hands to replace or repair it. As long as we have such poor measurement devices for our economies, and pollution is not paid for, we will continue to fail to make any impact in these things. To get back to the earlier point, it is my belief that organic or similar systems can form part of the solution, especially in less developed countries, where a well-managed organic plot using locally produced inputs can vastly improve productivity above the current subsistence levels, and without impoverishing the producers. In much of the developed world, I suspect that organic is not the solution. It does offer lessons and solutions, but for many reasons it is not feasible on the massive scales that we have become used to operating at, not least in horticulture because too much labour would be required. Becoming vegetarians would help, but not in certain parts of Ireland (or the world), where the only vegetation is grass, and as humans can't eat grass, we only have the option of grazing animals and eating these, which is still better than no food at all. This could go on and on... Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of edwdol...@aol.com Sent: 22 July 2009 14:22 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic If livestock, dairy and poultry farmers quit raising their products. the supply of manure for composting or fertilizers will be nil. I posed this question to an invited organic grower (the originator of the Topato), speaker at the SW Illinois Vegetable Growers meeting in 1968: where is the supply of manure to fertilize the 3000 acres of vegetables in the St. Louis production area? At that time, the recommendation was 2-4 tons per acre or more. It was not available then nor is it now. Chris Doll, Extension retiree -Original Message- From: Dave Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:03 pm Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic Yes, I was implying that it might be less damaging to our planet if we produced food using pesticides in humid climates rather than draining rivers for arid-land agriculture. However, I really doubt if anyone has calculated the trade-offs, and it would probably be nearly impossible to do so. We are all so interconnected that it is often very difficult to predict how changes in one arena can totally upset the balances half a world away. (Besides, the world would rapidly run out of food if we abandoned all arid-land agriculture or if we abandoned all pesticides not approved for organic use!) To illustrate the complexities of our interconnectedness: A recent article in Science magazine discussed decisions by an agency in California that decided industries should not receive carbon-related credits for using biofuels because the data collected by this agency indicated that
Apple-Crop: Terrible weather
A few weeks ago the UK meteorological service issued its long range forecast for the coming summer as one that will be hotter and drier than usual. Needless to say, since then it has been raining in Ireland (although the prospects are for better weather quite soon). This wet weather is following a wet spring, which means that soils have been saturated for some time, and apple scab pressure has been very strong. At the moment I am two days overdue on a 7 day apple scab program which so far this season has incorporated dithianon (an old-fashioned protectant with similar activity to Captan), Scala (pyrimethanil), Mancozeb, Captan and Bellis (a pyraclostrobin and boscalid mixture), as well as bupirimate for powdery mildew. Despite this rigorous program, I have still spotted some apple scab lesions in one block, and plan to use a difenoconazole mancozeb mixture as soon as weather permits. I attribute the presence of scab to the late growth of some shoots into early winter, and the subsequent persistence of little leaves on a few un-pruned shoot tips over the winter; these over-wintering leaves carrying lesions capable of infecting new green tissue as soon as it emerged in the spring. Of course, if the weather had not been so wet, spray covers would have been more reliable, and infections less likely to occur, but that is not how it turned out. It will be interesting to see the effect of the difenoconazole when I do get to use it. As long ago as 1993/94 we experienced DMI resistance (to myclobutanil). Since then we have used DMI's very irregularly, but laboratory tests on lesions as late as 2001 showed that myclobutanil resistance was still widespread within our orchard. However, difenoconazole appears to be much more active than myclobutanil, so I am hopeful that it will work. If I can still collect samples in a few weeks time, I plan to test them for DMI resistance again. Apart from that, I do have the option of using dodine. This is a chemical that we never used routinely in our spray programs, and I do not believe that our scab is resistant to it yet. I am reluctant to use it for fear of russet, but it may present the lesser of two evils, the other being scab infections on the apple. Alternatively, I may have to continue with a low-rate protectant program during the season to keep fruit and emerging leaves scab-free. Time will tell, but the unfolding weather will play a big part. Which brings me back to the long-range UK met service forecast. I hope they are right. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir, Ireland.
Apple-Crop: RE Cedar apple rust
That is a great point Karl, We are travelling down the same road in Europe, and we also have fewer options and more restrictions when it comes to chemical applications. And oddly enough, the newer chemicals are generally inferior to the older chemistry, plagued especially with resistance problems. However, manufacturers will not defend old chemistry, as there is no money in it for them, whereas they are rather more willing to invest in pushing through chemicals that are patent-protected. It will make growing fruit more expensive and more difficult. That would not be such a problem if we did not have to compete with fruits grown in locations where these restrictions do not apply, as open trade allows these fruits to be sold in Europe (or the US) even if treated with chemicals or in ways that our governments would not permit in their own countries. All that the regulators will succeed in doing is push the production to less regulated countries, where the same chemicals will still be used. No environmental benefit will accrue, and fruit will probably travel even further to market in our more restricted countries. Food will also get more expensive here. It's bizarre that nobody thinks these things through beyond the most simplistic first step of more restrictions = less chemicals = good. We are all in favour of less chemicals, but the regulations now being developed will not deliver that. PS. Would any of the strobilurins have helped for the cedar rust? Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir CO. Tipperary Ireland -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Karl Townsend Sent: 30 April 2009 12:39 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Cedar apple rust . Since you've never had a problem before, I expect that there was an unusually high amount of inoculum last year, and the two final sprays of captan, then Scala, didn't do much to control it. Another explanation might be that in previous years, you've used an EBDC (Polyram, Dithane, Maneb, etc.) through the entire scab season, which would have handled rust. The SI (Nova) would provide good post- infection activity against rust as well as scab, so I doubt the infections happened early. Indeed, we used to rely on the EBDC more until a label change for longer PHI. For that matter, SI also, but to fear of resistance. For many years we'd have four polyram/nova sprays. OK, Nova is out. (we only use Nova when we get caught needing post infection) Polyram is out for the late period. Captan and Scala are poor choices - what's left? Karl -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: ten-organic-foods-worth-money
Hello Jon, Cheap shot journalism at its best. Says more about the writer than the subject. Most people have more sense than to be swayed by it though, I believe. If it was here though, I would contact the journalist to set out a few facts, because she might just be silly enough to write the same stuff again. Funny enough, if she wrote K is for Kelloggs and a lot of pesticides she would probably be sued from here to eternity. Con Traas PS. The Johnny story was very uplifting. FYI, this was linked from cnn.com today. (Thanks to Tom Green of the IPM Institute for pointing it out.) http://bit.ly/3Enxpk Apples A is for apple―and a lot of pesticides. According to the Food and Drug Administration, more pesticides (a whopping 36) are found on apples than on any other fruit or vegetable. In one test, as many as seven chemicals were detected on a single apple. No organic? Peel your apples. And look for apples from New Zealand (it's noted on the little produce stickers), which are treated with half as many pesticides as those grown Stateside. Jon Clements Extension Tree Fruit Specialist UMass Cold Spring Orchard 393 Sabin Street Belchertown, MA 01007 VOICE 413.478.7219 FAX 413.323.6647 IM mrhoneycrisp Skype Name mrhoneycrisp -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Apple-Crop: Academic reviewers
Apologies to apple croppers, The previous email was meant to be sent to Prof. Rahe directly. Con Traas -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Apple-Crop: Academic reviewers
Hello all, I am currently in the process of writing a journal paper on the results of a long-term study into the application of gibberellins on apple trees. The journal that I hope to submit to (Scientia Horticulturae) require that I submit the names and contact details of four academic reviewers, at least two of whom should not be from my own geographic region. I would very much appreciate if anyone on apple crop who is suitably qualified, and would be interested in reviewing the paper, would reply to me (by email preferably) in the near future. As you can see, I need at least two volunteers, though four would be even better. I would then forward your details to Elsevier (the publishers). My contact details are: Con Traas Life Science Dept. University of Limerick Plassey Park Limerick Ireland con.tr...@ul.ie
RE: Apple-Crop: Apples at a place where there is no chilling.
Hello Dr. Parmar, Just a suggestion, but production of ABA, which regulates dormancy, is encouraged by shortening days and lengthening nights. At 6 degrees south, daylength will not change, so I suspect that there might not be so much ABA in the buds (especially if defoliation is practised), and so they might not become dormant in the first place, and so the chilling is not required to break dormancy. That place sounds so amazing that I would love to go there some time to see for myself. Con Traas From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Dr. Chiranjit Parmar Sent: 16 February 2009 14:10 To: NAFEX Cc: Apple Crop; Rarefruit list Subject: Apple-Crop: Apples at a place where there is no chilling. Dear all, I was in Indonesia for two weeks and also visited some places in Java island of that country. I had a VERY BIG SURPRISE of my life there. In Batu area of Java I saw apples being cultivated. This are is around 3000 ft above the seaas level, at 6 degrees south of equator. The minimum temperature of this area is above 45 F meaning that the trees do not receive any chilling. Most farmers even take two crops a year by regulating the flowering with pruning or hand defoliation. The fruit quality is good and these fruits are bought by consumers at supermarkets at a price higher than that for Fuji apples. I would not have believed it had I not seen these orchards personally. Could any of you explain how these apple trees are able to grow and bear fruits even without meeting their chilling requirements? Dr. Chiranjit Parmar www.fruitipedia.com
Apple-Crop: Ethryl
Hello all, I hope that I have not been kicked off apple crop for bad behaviour. I have not seen any posts in a little while. In the past few weeks I have been analysing results of farm-scale trials on the use of post-blossom ethryl to cause thinning in apples. The results seem to be very variable, depending on variety, with Alkmene and Bramley's practically unaffected, and Katja, Jonagored and Elstar dropping a lot of apples, but with little positive effect on fruit size. As this is my first year trying this chemical, I would be interested in any observations. Con Traas Cahir Ireland PS. Congratulations to the US readers on your new President. Do you expect any effects on pomology?
Apple-Crop: European apple crop
Hello everyone, Estimates for the European apple crop have recently been published. Overall a crop of 9,977,000 tons is expected, a 14% increase on 2007. In the 15 older Western EU member states, Jonagold will be down 15% to 683,000 tons, Braeburn down 12% to 268,000 tons, Golden delicious down 8% to 1,944,000 tons, Gala down 4% to 856,000 tons and Elstar down 15% to 370,000 tons. The reason for the overall production rise is that the eastern European states which were frost-affected in 2007 will this year have full crops. Particular mention should be given to Poland, whose production of 1,100,000 tons in 2007 is set to double to 2,360,000 tons this year, which will make it the largest apple producer in Europe this year. Ireland will this year produce 0.1% of Europe's total apple crop, and my own farm 0.005% of Europe's apple crop. And if I had forty euros for every ton of apples grown in Europe this year, I would just have enough money to bail out the Irish banks property speculation bubble, which has just been guaranteed by our very generous government. Any news on US crop estimates? Con Traas The Apple Farm Moorstown Cahir Ireland
Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own (and fuel)
Hello Tommy, It is interesting that you should bring up the cost of fuel. Here in Ireland, it appears that fuel, fertilisers, and agrochemicals have all risen in price by fairly similar amounts. As far as I can see, this will push up costs of production by about 10%. However, with the credit squeeze, rising unemployment, high food inflation in general etc., I wonder about what latitude I have to recoup the costs by increasing prices. Any thoughts anyone? Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy Sent: 12 July 2008 17:17 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own Thank everyone for responding to my questions about ladders in a PYO operation. I had my own fears, and everyone confirmed them. Hope this is a money making year for everyone despite high fuel prices. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard Roseland, Va. - Original Message - From: Ron Gaskill mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:59 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own Tommy, In our pick-you-own operation (in Michigan) the question of ladders or not was answered by our insurance carrier with an emphatic, no! It wasn't a question of paying a higher premium but rather one of having insurance coverage at all; it wouldn't insure the exposure. And it was a major agricultural insurer with a strong commercial lines base. A PYO customer could be injured from climbing a tree and yet be covered by insurance, but once the ladder was in the orchard and offered as an inducement to climb the coverage terminated. We didn't really argue with the carrier because we weren't that thrilled to have ladders in the orchard anyway and it made for an easy reason to keep them out. The trees were medium-sized and free-standing and occasionally a youngster or two would climb onto the main scaffold limbs, but all-in-all we had very few problems with climbers. Check carefully with your insurance carrier to be sure you know the extent of your coverage. Ronald L. Gaskill, Director Congressional Relations for International Trade American Farm Bureau Federation(r) 600 Maryland Ave., SW; Suite 1000W Washington, D.C. 20024 Tel: (202) 406-3674 Fax: (202) 406-3604 Cell: (202) 213-0179E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:00 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own We are allowing people to pick their own apples for the last couple of years. We didn't start out as a pick your own orchard and we have larger trees, 111, 7, and some larger 26's. In the past we have not allowed ladders or climbing trees. I was wondering if any other pick your own orchards allowed ladders either supplying them to people or allowing them to bring their own. Also if ladders are allowed how much more insurance do you have to carry. Has anyone had any bad claims because of ladders. Thanks for responding. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard Roseland, Va
RE: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own
Hello Tommy, and all other respondents on this topic. I grow apples and plums, and unfortunately with the plums, have had no choice up to now but to use ladders. However, all our apples are on M9 rootstock, and can be picked from ground level. Unless there are very good climatic reasons not to use a dwarfing rootstock that contains trees to less than 8 feet high, I cannot emphasise enough the convenience factor of picking from the ground. Picking rates are far higher, and the safety factor is a huge issue. If I still had big trees, I would start phasing them out as quickly as possible. I think it will be cheaper than the additional costs of picking over the longer term. I also suspect that the convenience factor of picking from ground level will encourage u-pick customers to buy more fruit (sometimes they just can't stop themselves). At the moment we are planting plums on VVA-1 (dwarfing stock) with a view to replacing our older (but perfectly healthy and productive) large trees on St. Julien A. If I don't do this, and someone down the road plants dwarf plums, it won't be long until I am out of business, because I will not be able to compete. Perhaps someday when robotic pickers become available, we will be able to let our trees up higher again. Right now I want my apples where I can reach them. Con Traas Cahir Co. Tipperary Ireland From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy Sent: 06 July 2008 07:00 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own We are allowing people to pick their own apples for the last couple of years. We didn't start out as a pick your own orchard and we have larger trees, 111, 7, and some larger 26's. In the past we have not allowed ladders or climbing trees. I was wondering if any other pick your own orchards allowed ladders either supplying them to people or allowing them to bring their own. Also if ladders are allowed how much more insurance do you have to carry. Has anyone had any bad claims because of ladders. Thanks for responding. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard Roseland, Va
Apple-Crop: New variety article
Hello Jon, That is a nice piece of work. It is important to be consumer (rather than customer) orientated, and this is a lesson for more than the people who sell direct to the consumer. Con Traas -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Clements Sent: 23 June 2008 19:25 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: New variety article Hello everyone, we have just web-published a study on Consumer Evaluation of New, Antique, and Little Know Apple Varieties. http://www.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/variety/ Many of you who sell direct-market will be interested in the results. Jon Jon Clements Extension Tree Fruit Specialist UMass Cold Spring Orchard 393 Sabin Street Belchertown, MA 01007 VOICE 413.478.7219 FAX 413.323.6647 IM mrhoneycrisp Skype Name mrhoneycrisp -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington California
Hello all, There are also reports of some freezing temperatures in continental Europe, down to 19.5F in parts of Holland. No news on damage as of yet, but frost protection was in full swing with those who have it. Con Traas From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan M. Oster Sent: 24 April 2008 19:35 To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington California Hello Annette, We have received preliminary reports from some of our readers and industry contacts regarding the freeze in the Pacific Northwest. At this point, it is too early to assess the full extent of the damage. From what we have heard, soft fruit seems to have been hit the hardest, although some apple growers outside of Yakima have mentioned possible crop loss of up to 50%. As we receive more updates on the severity of the damage, we will be keeping our readers posted via our weekly electronic newsletter (which, incidentally, you can sign up for by going to www.americanfruitgrower.com http://www.americanfruitgrower.com/ and clicking on subscribe). Best Regards, Megan Oster Associate Editor American/Western Fruit Grower Meister Media Worldwide 37733 Euclid Avenue Willoughby, Ohio 44094 Direct Dial: 440-602-9207 [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Annette and Randy Bjorge Fruit Acres Farms Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:23 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington California Hi Apple Croppers, There are rumors in Michigan about there being damage in Washington State and California. Does anybody know anything? Annette Bjorge Fruit Acres Farms Coloma, MI
RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland
Hello Jean-Marc, I know that this is completely off-topic, but just in case there is somebody out there interested in this job, and considering the same question, then (for a single person) if you have a salary of 50,000 euros in Ireland, the social insurance for the worker costs about 4,000 euros, and the tax about 13,000 euros, leaving 33,000 euros. Not much different from France then. Con From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jourdain Jean-Marc Sent: 16 April 2008 12:05 To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland Hi Con Traas Interesting Lets consider a 5 Euros annual income in Ireland, how much money would really be in my pocket at the end of year (deducted tax and insurance paid by employees on the monthly income), and what would be my global tax as a single. At this moment in France, the neat salary would be 20% less, and my average annual global tax would be around 20% of the neat income (marginal high rate 30%). Estimated since I am not a single... Thus it would remain in my bank 32000 Euros, Joke on/ and of course : healthy life in countryside, quiet nights, lot of fruit and vegetable to eat, no traffic jams, no underground theatre or movies just block busters, affordable housing (provided you do not compete with retiring English people that are very fond of Dordogne area);-)) /Joke off No joke at all, I am very impressed that Ireland is able to offer such good conditions for this job. Jean Marc Jourdain De : Con.Traas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : mercredi 16 avril 2008 11:21 À : Apple-Crop Objet : Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland I am very happy to note that Ireland's agricultural research and extension body, Teagasc, is now recruiting for a fruit specialist (permanent position). The details of the job are available at http://www.teagasc.ie/careers/20080409a-spec.htm The abbreviated job description is to provide specialist technical support, training and leadership for the development of the Fruit sector. The salary scale begins at 36,000 euros per annum, with increments to 65,000 per annum. Depending on experience and qualifications, the starting salary could be as high as 49,000 per annum. A very generous civil service pension scheme is standard for all public service employees in Ireland. I would be delighted to see a candidate from outside Ireland bringing their experience, perspective and knowledge to bear in a position like this. Goodness knows we need it. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland
RE: Apple-Crop: position available
I must say that I think any employer would be very lucky to get a good manager to work those hours, with the extra flexibility required, for the salary offered (even though I would love such a job myself, if I did not have my own farm). Perhaps there are too many attractive alternative careers available to young people these days, but I don't think we would find many takers here. Mind you, it is good to see that the farm has the prospect of making a profit of $100,000, 10% of which could go to the manager. Any farm making a decent profit is a beacon to all of us. Con Traas - Original Message - From: Renae Moran mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:25 PM Subject: Apple-Crop: position available Apple Orchard Manager Position We currently have an opening for a farm manager in our operation. We are Ricker Hill Orchards, a family farm in Turner, Maine, started in 1803. Our apple orchards are located in seven towns in Maine's western foot hills. We produce IPM and organic apples, high bush blue berries, IPM cranberries, and other fruit and mixed vegetables to a much smaller degree. We employ five orchard managers who each manage and maintain 50 to 120 acres of apples. The farm manager spends most of their time on the same farm, pruning, mowing, spraying, and managing the harvest crew. Decisions on chemical control for pest and disease management and thinning are made by the owner. General farm workers are available when extra labor is needed. Record keeping for each farm is done an individual enterprise with expenses and income from the quality and quantity of crop. Managers must be available to work when needed to grow the crop to its top potential. There will be some flexibility on work schedule. Occasionally the manager will work with our packing operation, cranberry operation, or helping on one of the other manager's farms, as needed. This position involves some excessive hours during May/June and September/October. Our regular work week is Monday through Friday, 7 am to 4:30 pm. Base salary is between $27K and 35K, commensurate with experience and education. Manager's share of profits from their farm is 10% up to $10,000. Benefits include a medical and retirement plan, vehicle and clothing allowance. Housing may also be available. Thank you for your interest, Harry Ricker cell 207-754-3455, email [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.rickerhill.com
RE: Apple-Crop: Returns for apples tree run
Hello John, That is a very difficult question, and I am glad that a lot of people asked you some questions to define better whether you were supplying bins, storage etc. Here in Ireland I grow, pack and sell apples from my farm. Occasionally I sell fruit to other packers, and on the odd occasion, I pack fruit for other growers. In my own situation, for apples which I sell packed, psychologically I return about 50% of the market price to the orchard operation. In doing this, I am not really allowing any margin on the packing end, and in truth, I could buy the same apples that I grow for 30-40% of the market price. However, if I were to charge internally at these levels, I would not be making anything out in the orchard, and would be better off becoming a full-time packer, which would be giving me a very good return on investment. However, I do not want to be a packer, and don’t pack other people’s apples, because I do not like the parasitic relationship that I see between packers and growers. Therefore, I grow my own apples, pack them, and sell them, and do not pack apples for others, aside from when I am doing them a favour. When I look across at mainland Europe, I see co-operative packing operations that seem to do a bit better than in Ireland, because the growers are in control, and are returned a dividend from the co-operatives. However, I can also see that the more aggressive marketing operations tend to be privately run, but in the long run, I believe that these are detrimental to the good of the grower. Certainly, the independent packers in Ireland have not returned an acceptable price to growers in the past fifteen or twenty years. In your own case, given that you neither store nor provide the bins, I would feel that if you received 35% of the shipped price of the Red Delicious apples, you could not expect a lot more. However, as was already pointed out, this might be fine as an example of an industry average, but might not reflect the apples that you sent in. If you could get back the returns, gradeout etc. for your own apples, that would at least be a starting point. As I found out a few years ago (before I had enough storage and packing capacity myself), one well–respected packer to whom I supplied apples returned me €70 per bin after taking his extortionate storage and packing fees directly off the sales price he received (having sold my apples cheap to secure a customer for himself later in the year). Another guy to whom I sold them (and this person was known to be unreliable) returned me €127 per bin for the same apples, because I agreed a price prior to delivery, because others had warned me to be wary of him. The moral of the story was that I was a fool for trusting the first guy; not a mistake I have made since. Con Traas From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 February 2008 05:50 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: Returns for apples tree run What return for tree run should I expect from a packer for Red Delicious that pack out, say 75%? John Crumpacker Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp0030002598
Apple-Crop: Spring 2008
Hello all, We are experiencing a lovely warm spell for this time of the year, and St. Valentine's Day. Although warm, the trees are not so advanced as they were a few years ago, when the first Victoria plum trees started flowering at this time. So, at the moment it looks as though (assuming the weather does not remain warm for too long) we will have an early spring, but not one for the record books, which is a relief, as we have often had damaging frosts in early May, which is still a long way off. On our own farm we still have apples in store, and thanks to the Smartfresh treatment, they are really excellent. In fact, they seem to stay that fresh that I need to add far fewer high-acid apples to my juice to get a nice balance between sweetness and acidity. My only problem is to figure out what to do with the high acid apples. In general growers were happy with apple demand this year, but are very concerned about the rising costs of fertiliser (linked to oil prices it seems), and agrochemicals. However, labour is still the number one cost, and it looks likely to remain that way. At least in Ireland it is possible to get labour, whereas in the UK and Holland, it can be very difficult. I would be interested to hear what prospects are like in other parts of the World, and how the spring is shaping up. Right now I've got to go out and do a bit of work. Con Traas
Apple-Crop: Smartfresh
Hello all, We have been fortunate enough that Smartfresh has been approved for use in Ireland. I am happy to say that we had a store treated on Monday, and look forward to testing these apples against controls in a few months time. We have treated Jonagored (a Jonagold clone), a couple of Red Elstar clones and also Autento, Wellant Karmijn de Sonnaville (trial quantities). The Elstar clones were fairly ripe; certainly eating well when treated, while the Jonagoreds were picked for medium-term storage. I can't wait to see how things turn out, and was like a child with a new toy when the agent came to treat the store. We are still harvesting apples here, and the weather has been great; dry and mild, so progress has been good. We expect to pick Jonagored for the next week or so, and also Karmijn de Sonnaville, and after that the Golden Delicious. The harvest timing has been most interesting, as the early varieties were two weeks ahead of normal, as indicated by the comments of Jean-Marc, who posted on this topic earlier. However, the later varieties are not ahead of normal, which raises questions about just whether it really is possible to predict optimum harvest dates from quite early in the year. Six weeks ago when we were picking the earlies, we thought that the maincrop apples would be well ready for harvest by now. Now they are not. How about that for inaccuracy? Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland
RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story
Hello all, We don't get much tabloid TV over here (unless we pay for satellite we only have access to 4 stations), but often these programs generate more heat than light, and unless the presentation is very clear, more harm can come from them than good. I generally believe that negative advertising, stories or whatever about a topic such as the (communist) Chinese apple juice concentrate may harm innocent bystanders such as genuine US apple juice manufacturers, when slightly confused people decide to switch to orange or cranberry juice instead. Keep emphasising the positive about yourself, and you do not run this risk. Con Traas From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 18 October 2007 11:50 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story Based on his debates on immigration reform, it is a waste of time. In a message dated 10/17/2007 4:00:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK OK guys I will attempt to straighten out Lou - maybe he would let me on the show to debate it!!! On Oct 17, 2007, at 1:49 PM, George M. Greene wrote: Hi Bill and All: When I worked in Pennsylvania most apple pickers made AT LEAST $10/HOUR. The old sob stories of apple growers exploiting orchard workers WERE JUST NOT TRUE. They worked real hard and made good money. Workers pruning were also making a minimum of $10/HOUR Please, a PR person in the apple industry needs to straighten them out. Tim Smith is right on!!! Best regards, George Unfortunately, the text implies that rather than the $2/day chinese apple pickers earn, apple pickers in America earn $9-$15 (a day). As a publisher, perhaps you (Matt) could remind them that integrity is all the news media has to convince readers/listeners of the veracity of their stories. You might also want to tell them how long this has been going on, and that news is best served fresh. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. Bill Shoemaker, Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops University of Illinois - St Charles Horticulture Research Center www..nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html http://www.nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html - Original Message - From: Matt McCallum mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:03 AM Subject: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story Check out the October 9, Lou Dobbs Tonight story on Chinese apple juice concentrate. They made a big deal that most of the apple juice sold is from Chinese concentrate - wow talk about being late to the party... http://media.vmsnews.com/MR.pl?id=100907-800813-Q001194320 http://media.vmsnews.com/MR.pl?id=100907-800813-Q001194320 . --- Matt McCallum Publisher/CEO Great American Publishing 75 Applewood Drive Suite A Sparta MI 49345 P - 616-887-9008 ext 101 F - 616-887-2666 http:www.freshcut.com http://www.freshcut.com http://www.fruitgrowersnews.com http://www.fruitgrowersnews.com/ http://www.vegetablegrowersnew..com http://www.vegetablegrowersnew.com/ http://www.spudman.com http://www.spudman.com/ -- George M. Greene II 68 Willow Lane Wiscasset, ME 04578 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 207-882-8074 = Jim Bittner Singer Farms 6730 East Lake Rd Appleton, NY 14008 Phone 716-778-7330 Fax 716-778-7003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.singerfarms.com See what's new at AOL.com http://www.aol.com?NCID=AOLCMP0030001170 and Make AOL Your Homepage http://www.aol.com/mksplash.adp?NCID=AOLCMP0030001169 .
RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest
Hello Jean-Marc, That is an interesting point that you make about stopping your models at the end of cell division. The same thought crossed my mind, but only tentatively, because, while our season did not begin really early (as in bud break was later than quite a few recent years), the warm weather at and just after flowering meant that the apples raced through these stages, so that the time apples reached perhaps 20mm, was two weeks ahead of normal, and they have stayed two weeks ahead, despite the cool weather we experienced subsequently. Could you post a more exact representation of the new formula you suggest for estimating harvest time. Con From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jourdain Jean-Marc Sent: 13 September 2007 15:53 To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest Hi from South West of France I could have written almost exactly the same words for our situation. Amazing precocity here (William's Bartlett harvested end of July... never seen). Some more points : For what concerns colour, we have this year very beautiful reds, strains of Gala wonderful, red delicious 4/4. This is different from Ireland. We think this is linked to cool nights we had all August. Since we are aware of this amazing maturity date, we have been trying to rely the last years and this years harvest dates with temperature summaries, with different zeroes, different ceilings, beginning at flowering and ending at different dates. To achieve a good forecast of harvest date there is only one thing that allow the correlation to work, this is to stop sums at June 15. More or less stop the sums at end of cell multiplication. We do not found any publication on this, may be some one in apple-crop have a track to a paper on this? Sanitary status is ok on fungus and pests, but we have got the bigger attack of fireblight since 10 years. I heard the same echoes from other part of European continental part. Crop is very good on apple and below average on pears as shown with figures coming from the Lituania Prognosfruit But I will give you the secret reason of all these climate desorders... the guilty is the 13 moons year 2007 ;-)) Jean marc Jourdain Ctifl Jourdain(at;-)Ctifl.fr De : Con.Traas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : jeudi 13 septembre 2007 10:23 À : Apple-Crop Objet : Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest Hello apple people, The apple harvest here in Ireland is about two weeks ahead of schedule, or perhaps I should say that apple maturity is two weeks ahead of normal, because not everyone is picking as soon as perhaps they should. The spring was early and warm here this year, which got the fruit off to a good start, but then we endured the wettest summer in twenty years, which by our normal standards, that can be fairly wet, was really miserable. The trees did not suffer too badly however, even though fruits grew less than they normally would. About three weeks ago the weather dried out, and most of the picking of early varieties has proceeded in lovely warm weather, which has also helped the fruit size catch up to somewhere close to normal, except where crops are too heavy, and there is quite a bit of area where thinning was less than sufficient. In general it looks like crops will be heavy, and the fruits that have ripened so far have tasted well, with plenty of sugars. On the downside, colour is not great yet, and this could become problematic after another while, unless things start changing soon. I would imagine quite a few growers will pick over there red varieties two or three times to get the best coloured apples into store as soon as they are red enough, so hopefully the latter picked fruits will not be too ripe by then. There have been no particular issues with pests or diseases during the season, which is nice for a change. Insect pressure was low thanks to the continuous rain, and yet, diseases were not too bad, as it was dry early on when the disease organisms needed it wet. Fireblight, which is not endemic in Ireland made an appearance on some ornamental trees in Dublin, but these were cut down and destroyed, so hopefully it has not spread any further. A national trial of Jazz apples seems to demonstrate that they ripen too late for growing in Ireland, but two new early varieties, Zari and Zonga certainly have a nice taste. Prices for apples seem stable, and demand is good, so we are hoping for a better year than some of the bad ones in the past decade. Best wishes, Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir
RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees
Hello Darlyn, I have about 1.5 acres of Haygrove tunnels, which I use to cover strawberries, raspberries and cherries. There is another company called Viking, who make similar, so-called Spanish tunnels. They are good structures, but not suitable for covering crops in winter, when winds are stronger and shelter is poorer, nor are they suitable for very windy places. We get quite a bit of wind in Ireland, but I have located my tunnels in a relatively sheltered spot on the farm. However, during the summer, we got an unexpected gale, which lasted for about 4 hours, and which came close to knocking the tunnels. A guy about 50km from here, who was in a more exposed area, failed to keep all the tunnels ventilated (you ventilate by pushing the plastic up onto the roof of the tunnel, or down into the gutter if it is very windy, and he ended up with them crashing down onto his two acres of nearly ripe cherries, which were left a mess of tangled steel, branches and plastic. And because it was raining at the time, the cherries were lost. I would recommend these tunnels as a cheap(er) method of covering crops, but not suitable for places that get wind when you need to have the crops covered. Usually, our wind comes in winter, when we remove the plastic, as the plants do not need cover then, and that suits us fine. Good shelter in the area can help a lot. Because the tunnels are on a leg about 3 - 4 feet high, and the wind can blow under, temperatures do not get too hot underneath. The tunnels are as much for rain protection as temperature gain. Con Traas The Apple Farm Cahir Ireland -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 13 August 2007 22:03 To: Apple-Crop Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees Listers: Have a look at high tunnels now manufactured by several berry growers in England after developing them for their own crops - raspberries, cherries, strawberries. They are marketed as Haygrove Tunnels. Sorry, I am short of time or would try to pull up their website. Just Google Haygrove. Here in the Pacific Northwest I find similar structures sold by Wilson Orchard Supply of Yakima, WA. They are put up and taken down depending on the crop and the season. I have yet to talk with anyone who has wind experience with them. After our 14 windstorms last fall-winter, I am a bit reluctant to try them. They can be covered with plastic, net, shade cloth. I want to talk with a structural-tensile engineer (B.C. Dome, etc) consultant in my area first. Darlyn Del Boca N.W. WA --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees
Thank you very much Derry, Those covers seem like a very innovative way to help avoid using fungicides. Karmijn are very prone to scab and mildew, and would normally be thought of as high chemical input apples. The way I have my trees planted, I could not use a system like yours. In various parts of Europe (and elsewhere) hail covers are becoming commonplace, but they cover entire fields rather than rows of trees. I though your system might be a bit like that, but I can see it is different. Con -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of derrybill Sent: 03 August 2007 15:03 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees Con, You can get an idea of the shelters from my website: http://derrysorchardandnursery.ca And then I can answer questions. Derry Walsh south coastal B.C. By the way, I was intrigued to read that Derry's Karmijn are under cover. I would love to hear more about this. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees
Hello George, What you are saying is true. The nets don't cover the entire filed. However, when you look up, there is a lot more net than space. The individual nets might be 3 metres wide, while the space between nets is only 0.5 metres. I suppose it is to protect against hail being blown in at an angle by the wind. But you are quite right; there must be spaces to let the hail through. I am not sure about the humidity. It could be a problem. But I am not close enough to the countries that use these nets as routine to ask the question. Con -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of George M. Greene Sent: 07 August 2007 14:40 To: Apple-Crop Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees Con: I can't quite imagine a full field hail covering. Is it strong enough to hold the hail until it melts? I would think that mildew would be worse under a covering since the humidity would likely be higher. I guess I have seen photos of nets over orchards in Mexico. To me covers over single rows seem a lot more practical. Best regards, George Greene Thank you very much Derry, Those covers seem like a very innovative way to help avoid using fungicides. Karmijn are very prone to scab and mildew, and would normally be thought of as high chemical input apples. The way I have my trees planted, I could not use a system like yours. In various parts of Europe (and elsewhere) hail covers are becoming commonplace, but they cover entire fields rather than rows of trees. I though your system might be a bit like that, but I can see it is different. Con -- George M. Greene II 68 Willow Lane Wiscasset, ME 04578 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 207-882-8074 --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit cracking/splitting
Richard, I do get similar cracking on my Karmijn from time to time, but not with too much severity, so I never went into it too carefully. It is clearly year-dependant, but why is a more difficult issue. I have not associated the problem with cold post blossom weather, as we often get that, but perhaps it is a factor. I think wet summer weather may play a part also. I do feel that the trees with a lighter set are more prone, as are trees that don't get a program on GA4+7 for russet reduction. However, the crop load on trees getting the GA treatment is usually higher than that on trees which do not get it, so whether it is an indirect or direct effect of the GA is difficult to guess. I do also feel that there are some trees that seem more prone year-on-year than others. Is this clonal variation, or a rootstock effect, or could there be a contributing latent virus, either in the rootstock or scion? As you can see, I am contributing no answers to your question; only more questions. However, I do think that treating the tree in such a way to maximise crop load (which is seldom too heavy on Karmijn) reduces the problem. By the way, I was intrigued to read that Derry's Karmijn are under cover. I would love to hear more about this. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard J. Ossolinski Sent: 27 July 2007 12:36 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fruit cracking/splitting Thanks for the response, Derry, though the mystery remains unresolved, as, FWIW, we had no unusually cold weather here just after bloom. Fun, though, ain't it? Richard On Jul 27, 2007, at 1:33 AM, derrybill wrote: Richatrd, I've had the same cracks in my russeted apples : Golden Russet, St Edmunds Pippin and Roxbury Russet. I think this cracking is different from the cracking seen on Cox's Orange which usually is circular around the calyx and usually appears later in the season. I sometimes see the circular cracking in Karmijns and I associate it with the Cox's Orange parentage. I spoke to Ed Fackler about this a few years ago. In particular I was discussing Hudson's Golden Gem another russeted apple. Ed thought the cracking was associated with cold weather just after bloom i.e. as the young apple was developing. I do not have cracking in my Karmijns but my Karmijns are all under cover so they are somewhat protected from the cold temps after pollination. My russeted apples are in the open. Richard, in a separate email, I will attach some jpgs of cracked russeted apples. I don't have cracks in any other apples. I noticed the cracks in early July, but I'm sure the cracks were there from at least early June. I have temporarily misplaced my pollination chart for 2007, but it was approximately to the first ten days in May. Derry Walsh South Coastal B.C. http://derrysorchardandnursery.ca Richard J. Ossolinski wrote: Anyone have a clue as to what causes this splitting/cracking? (Thanks to Glen Koehler at UMO for creating this link) http://pmo.umext.maine.edu/apple/nosearch/cracked-apples-Oz.htm --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER
Hello all,?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office / I certainly tend to agree with Dave. As realists we need to begin from where we now find ourselves, and plot a safe route forward. In answer to Philip's question: Are you suggesting the possibility of Frankenbees... I can see an issue with bees spreading pollen from GM crops to non-GM crops, but I don't see what effect it would have on the bees, themselves, I think there may be some issues. As of yet, it is difficult to find scientific publications that highlight potential problems, but that is the nature of science, as it reports what we see or understand, and wild speculation does not form part of what is reported in the scientific literature. One report that I did come across related to bumble bees, and the work was conducted by Dirk Babendreier, a scientist who has quite a few publications in relation to bees. In the particular publication, three transgenic products were fed to colonies of bumblebees, along with sugar solution and floral pollen, and controls were also used. The Bt-toxin (Cry1Ab) was not found to effect bumblebees. However, the consumption of SBTI and GNA (the products of two different types of GM soya) caused colony performance to suffer. It was reported that GNA at a high concentration was especially harmful for bumblebees as they were not able to rear any offspring in this treatment. Now I am happy to accept that this is only one report, and that more needs to be known before we come to the conclusion that GM crops are harmful to bees. However, this does demonstrate that GM crops have the potential to be harmful to bees, and that the toxins that we deliberately want GM crops to produce, may have harmful side-effects on non-target organisms such as bees. There are other issues that it might be interesting to speculate about (such as what if bacteria in the digestive system of a bee adopted a gene from the pollen that the bee is consuming; for instance a gene that codes for the production of an insecticide; could the bacteria in the bee poison it?). The possibility of this happening has been demonstrated by the adoption of genetic information from GM plants into the gut bacteria of humans. It does not raise the possibility of Frankenbees, but it does raise the possibility of bees with Franken bacteria in their systems. It seems to me that prudence would dictate that we should move forward with caution. I do not suspect that colony collapse disorder is related to GM crops, as it seems to also occur in countries where few GM crops are grown. As usual, (and as the Steiner quote earlier implies), there is more unknown than known. Con Traas The Apple Farm -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Rosenberger Sent: 15 May 2007 04:15 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER The only way to avoid possible negative ramifications of man's meddling with the natural order of things would be for us to revert to a hunter-gatherer social structure, and even that would have its impacts! All of agriculture including organic agriculture has negative impacts if one defines negative as being anything other than an untouched ecosystem. And if that is not where the line should be drawn, then who gets to decide where in fact the line does get drawn? Concerning bee activity, we have about 20 acres of research orchards at the Hudson Valley Lab and we have never brought in bees for pollination, nor am I aware of any neighbors within a quarter mile who keep bees. We still seem to get plenty of wild bees and other kinds of pollinators coming out of the woods that surround our orchards, although the honeybee population dropped off dramatically several years ago when the mite problems were killing both domestic and wild bees. This year, we had more honeybee activity than I have seen in many years. My point is that domesticated honeybees tended by beekeepers are not the only source of honeybee pollinators (or is it pollenizers? I can never remember). Managed hives are undoubtedly important on large farms, in areas where crops are grown in artificial climates (i.e., irrigated deserts), or in regions where agriculture has removed all of the natural habitat for wild bees. Nevertheless, my experience in watching bees suggests that wild bees would be around for many years even if all of the beekeepers suddenly collapsed over night. I suppose the possibility of Frankenbees exists and I would to hear from an expert about all the possible negative ramifications of mans medalling with the natural order of things. Jim Friedler -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip Smith Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:13 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES
RE: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles
Hello Kevin, I normally operate with a mean drop size of about 80-90 microns. The thing about these nozzles is that they give drops of 500 microns, that are supposed to break up into small drops (but I don't know what size) once they contact the plant foliage. Clearly, with such large drops, drift should not be an issue, but if the drops don't break up as promised, then problems of areas receiving too much and too little active ingredient will certainly arise. I think Maurice's suggestion of the water sensitive cards will be very useful to check how the nozzles actually perform, but I'd rather not buy the nozzles to later find out that the water sensitive card says that they don't do what they claim. I might have to find out myself, and at least then I can let you know what I think. Con Traas -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin Sanders Sent: 20 February 2007 22:36 To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles My own thoughts are that you should be careful ..If you have some thoughts on trying this you should remember that the best coverage is applied by spraying as constant a drop size as you can manage in the 100 micro range .The larger drops lead you to deposits of chemical in small area's and not complete coverage of the surface . Kevin Sanders
Apple-Crop: Warm year ahead
Hello all, According to the British Meteorological Association, there is a 60% chance that 2007 will be the hottest year on the planet since records began. Although this is a further indication of global warming induced by human activities, which is bad news for humankind in the medium to long term, it also gives us as growers an indication of what we might need to be ready for next season. In Ireland, it has become apparent that dry spells last a little longer than they used to, and because the temperatures are also a little higher, this means additional plant stress. On my own farm, all of the younger trees are irrigated, and in the forthcoming year, I plan to extend the area irrigated to include at least another five acres of older orchards, and all strawberry plantations. I find it quite amazing now, but years ago, drought was seldom an issue, even with field grown strawberries, and now it is rare that drought is not an issue. It really is quite a change. On the positive front, once the irrigation is in place, when you consider that Irish temperatures are usually less than optimal, the higher temperatures are beneficial, resulting in higher rates of photosynthesis and greater crop yields. On the negative side, I need to be ready for infestations of pests that were not able to thrive in the cooler weather a few years ago. The main pest that has been advancing is codling moth, and we have gone from a position thirty years ago where codling moth only occasionally caused problems, even when we did not spray for it, to one where is it is causing problems, even when we are using fairly comprehensive mating disruption programs. It is quite amazing. Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland PS. My friend has shown an improvement in his condition. The doctors were never able to identify the fungal pathogen causing his pneumonia, but whatever it is, it is disappearing. He is now breathing using his own lung muscles, although he is still getting oxygen-enriched air. While he is still sedated to remain unconscious, this may change soon. His family are very grateful for the information on pathogens provided by people here on this forum. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Apple-Crop: Medical question
Hello all, I have the unfortunate task of asking you what might turn out to be a life and death question. An apple growing friend of mine contracted cancer some time ago, and was getting chemotherapy and other treatments. As a result of his suppressed immune system, he subsequently contracted what appears to be an unusual fungal infection of his lungs. All efforts to diagnose this in Ireland, and now in Sweden, have failed. The doctors are considering the possibility that the fungal infection may be something that was carried on the apples, as the grower in question continued with his normal apple harvesting, packing, sorting of rotten apples etc. despite his condition. I would appreciate that if any one out there on the list could shed any light on this, or would have any suggestions, or might have heard of something like this before, to let me know as soon as possible. Or perhaps, if you know someone off-list, who might know, and would not mind to ask them the question, that would also be much appreciated. The condition of this person is perilous, and without an answer, the prognosis is not good. So any help at all would be better than nothing. Best wishes, Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland ++353-52-41459
